The conspiracy theorists were hyperventilating during URBAN WARRIOR in the late 90’s and we got a good chuckle out of them back then, too...Words Twice says this is much ado about nothing.
I would bet that these guys are reservists from the local area, not active duty military...
I guess he's right. Lord knows our government should have earned our trust by now.
Besides, the kind of stuff I'm "paranoid" about could never happen here and we will never need concern ourselves with Question 46.
It feels so liberating to finally shed this tinfoil hat.
Break out the cameras. Thats what I'd be doing for this. Really get some good pictures for my computer backgrounds. Also get some good video.
ReplyDeletePlus it could be a good time to practice being the grey man - ccwing, traveling with guns, etc.
I think it was about 5 years ago the marines did some "Urban Combat" training in my states capitol. It was only for like 2 days and nobody new about it that didn't go to that town for those days until after the fact. That was a bummer.
So glad that video is still available to watch.
ReplyDeletePolice Chief Eddie Compass saying "No one will be able to be armed. We will take all the weapons," right in front of God and everybody.
You saw their tactics. Push the door open, stand their silhoutted in the "fatal funnel" until their eyes adjust to the darkness inside. YES! And realize that there's one on the OTHER side of the door, and one standing behind or next to him... and that walls are not bulletproof in either direction.
And police command posts stand out.
Never again. NEH-VER.
Mr. Codrea,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I like your blog. I do think you are bringing attention to some important issues here. Keeping a watchful eye on our government is a good thing. Generally, I agree with your sentiment, but not in this instance.
In addition to having had direct experience with programs like URBAN WARRIOR, I also happen to have been in New Orleans for the Katrina aftermath (as a civilian security contractor, not as a Marine). I do think it is outrageous that civilians had their firearms confiscated, but if I recall correctly, that was civilian law enforcement and the National Guard carrying that out, not the Marine Corps (and the video shows that). You can blame Blanco, Nagin and Compass for that.
I would have refused to participate in any operations whose sole goal was disarming peaceful citizens. I personally did not participate in any such activity, nor did I see any carried out. I did, however, see exaggeration and misinformation by the news media, much like every other bad place I have been.
Your commenters also are conflating the military with civilian law enforcement agencies. Despite their external appearance, SWAT teams are still very different entities from military units. Police militarization is a big problem in our country and I am disgusted with how the Katrina disaster was handled, but if you seriously believe that the Marine Corps is training in Indiana to practice disarming the American populace, well, all I can do is roll my eyes.
As far as this Question 46, what is this supposed to prove? That a shadowy government entity plans to use the Marines to subjugate the populace? Has there been any follow up on this? Even if this nefarious conspiracy was true, it couldn’t happen without wholesale mutiny in the Marine Corps. There are a lot more people in the military who are sympathetic to many of your views than you might believe.
For a long time, our military has been largely confined to their bases in this country, and unless you actually lived near a base, most Americans have little contact with or understanding of our nations military personnel. Marines in particular have a long standing order not to wear their utility uniforms off base when not on duty, mostly to keep a lower profile and avoid presenting an intimidating appearance to the civilian population. Now our military has a higher profile in areas of the country where people are not accustomed to seeing them. It’s not hard to see why some people might be alarmed. Many people have an innate fear, mistrust and dislike of the military and I doubt anything I can say will change their minds but at least nobody can say I didn’t try. Perhaps you could get yourself embedded with the unit as a reporter? Just a thought.
All in all, I still think that your suspicion is misguided. There are plenty of shady things that our government does, but this is not one of them.
Regards,
WT
WT-coming from a Marine family--grandfather, father, two uncles, brother--I have a natural inclination to hold them in high regard.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I do not trust my government any more, and I do not trust the politicians at the top of the armed services--what Col. David Hackworth referred to as "The Perfumed Princes."
I would like for nothing more than for you to be right that there is no cause for concern and for me to therefore be wrong.
But you'll forgive me if I don't share your eye rolling confidence. As for individuals refusing orders, I'd like to believe that--just as much as I'd like to believe civilian individuals will resist.
Again, you'll forgive me if I suspend embracing that as Gospel pending seeing some precedent.
I would have refused to participate in any operations whose sole goal was disarming peaceful citizens.
ReplyDeleteKey words.
You WILL come for our guns when ordered to, because when it comes to that you will be of the mind that you are dealing with "troublemakers" and that you have to "keep the peace".
Push will come to shove, some "brother of the shield" will go down, and this "it's on" form there on out. And take a hint from past LE demonization campaigns(Think Waco), they will no doubt portray us as evil and maybe throw in some extra charges.
Bottom line: When it comes to taking our guns, you won't know you are doing it. And I don't even know if people will know it's happening to them. The perspective can get so skewed, the pace so incremental, that we can all be screwed before we know what happened.
On top of all this, it's not like it hasn't happened before in our own history. I have the utmost confidence that the military will do what it is told. When the time comes, it will be justified under some circumstance/excuse.
Marine, Coast Guard, LE, Mercenaries...doesn't matter. They atmosphere at the moment will seem to say everything's alright.
C.H.
I’m not asking anyone to declare blind faith in politicians or the military, far from it. I have no great love of politicians nor the senior ranks of the military. That’s one of the reasons I left the service.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there is a big difference between a healthy mistrust of government and seeing enemies behind every corner. Do the Marines in your family believe this is nefarious plot? I don’t find this accusation credible because of my experiences in the Marine Corps and familiarity with how they plan and conduct training. It seems to me that the people that believe in a conspiracy lack the experience and don’t seem to want to actually challenge their theories and find out if they have any factual basis.
What is more plausible, that this is a dry run for massive civilian gun confiscation by a military force, or that this is training exercise for expeditionary warfare in an urban/suburban environment? Besides, military force hardly seems necessary. The majority of Americans don’t need to have their rights and property taken from them at gunpoint, they are more than willing to give them up without a fight.
If the Marines were smart, they would bring some reporters along for the ride similar to the way they do embedding in a combat zone. That way they could assuage any fears and misconceptions. They might even enjoy having a gun writer along. It probably would not be very difficult to contact their Public Affairs Officer and find out.
Perhaps you are right and I am wrong. Maybe the Marines really are planning to subjugate America and take all their firearms. After all, if someone had told me 20 years ago, that a the US would suffer almost 3,000 casualties in a dramatic terrorist attack by Islamic psychopaths and that after 7 years of war, a Marxist with a middle name of Hussein would be a serious contender for the White House, I would have thought they were smoking some powerful drugs. But here we are in 2008.
“You WILL come for our guns when ordered to...”
I should have known someone would fixate on that caveat. The oath I swore was to defend the Constitution and the only orders I was obligated to obey were lawful ones.
“... demonization campaigns... they will no doubt portray us as evil...”
Just like those killer robot jarheads!
“Marine, Coast Guard, LE, Mercenaries...doesn't matter. They atmosphere at the moment will seem to say everything's alright.
Regardless, I don’t think it will happen that way. SWAT teams? Yeah, maybe. Marines? I sincerely doubt it. To you they are all the same, I guess, but not to me. If Marines are kicking down your door, then you are probably building IEDs in some third world hovel, not minding your own business in the USA.
It is important to be suspicious of the motives of those in power, certainly, but it’s truly sad that we live in a time and place where we even entertain thoughts like these.
I vote with Words Twice.
ReplyDeleteI'd believe nearly anything you want to tell me about the National Guard, the US Army, the US Air Force, the US Navy, local police and their SWAT teams, the BATFU, the FBI, the CIA, the DIA, and the NSA.
But not the Marines.
And yes, I know that I'm deeply engaged in wishful thinking, but my family is full of Marines, and I'm partial and biased.
I pray God that if the worst-case scenario is realized, the Marines stay on their bases and ignore orders to shoot American civilians.
Why did "words twice" not shoot the people he saw confiscating weapons illegaly?
ReplyDeleteI can see both sides of this.
ReplyDeleteI guess it all comes down to that old "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."
Kent-
ReplyDeleteWords Twice stated in his first post: I personally did not participate in any such activity, nor did I see any carried out.
Who was he supposed to shoot?