What kind of men are attracted to electric cars? [More]I dunno. I look at potential, and as much as I like to make fun of the environmentalcases, there are benefits to not putting crap in the air that don't require coercion to "sell." And think how cool it would be if Tesla's energy transmitters could prove both doable and safe.
In the interim, the big drawback on electric cars for me has always been the downtime needed to charge them before you can be on your way, making long trips unfeasible. I don't understand why no one has proposed an easily ejectable and insertable battery that could be swapped out at self-service stations, and you're on your way in less time than it takes to fill a tank.
Sure, that would require a standard, but the market seemed to figure out VHS vs. Beta OK...
[Via Mack H]
If these cars weren't tied at all to the Communist eco-whackjob-groups, I still wouldn't want them.
ReplyDeleteSwap out a battery in the cold temps and you're still risking problems.
The idea sounds well-intentioned, but so did Remingtons EtronX.
Daid, I have not the expertise to do the studies properly, but my gut tells me that by the time you factor in the energy to mine and refine the metals used in those batteries (of necessity from petroleum based fuels) along with the chemicals to do so and the energy to fabricate the batteries themselves (from some sort of fossil fuel most likely) I would be surprised if the net impact to the environment were not worse than from just driving regular automobiles. If you add in the energy source for the electrical generating plants to supply the power to charge the batteries you start getting much worse impact on the environment.
ReplyDeleteI expect it would come out similar to when the greenie-weenies forced McDonald's to switch from styrofoam to paper for their food boxes. Because of the really noxious chemicals used in making paper, the net environmental impact was WORSE than with styrofoam.
The bottom line is there ARE no free lunches. SOMEbody ALWAYS has to pay the tab. Right now petroleum based motor fuels are the most efficient portable energy storage medium around.
1.I'm not interested in helping commies either.
ReplyDelete2. I think financial incentive could produce a practical technological fix for any cold issues.
3. Aware of current state of having to generate the charging electricity via the current grid, and the associated cost and emissions factors.
The one observable truth: In terms of energy generation and distribution, things have changed exponentially within a relatively very short period, and will continue to change. How is something we can only speculate on, based on things that get introduced and either work out and act as springboards for the next set of developments, or die.
I doubt gas guzzlers will be the norm 100 years from now, assuming Mad Max remains fiction.
I hate advertising for pbs, but a couple weeks ago they actually had a nova about a guy who's invented a new kind of battery. I'm sure it's some clandestinely run 'Q'-type government paid civvie but the tech I'd pretty interesting. I'm sure if someone looks on YouTube it shouldn't be hard to find.
ReplyDelete2 words.
ReplyDeleteHydrogen Fuelcell
I built/rebuilt an electric car. I like women, guns, and I put on a suit of armor and fight. I am no sissy boy. Modern batteries are almost all recycled, and modern lithium batteries don't care about cold. Problems arise with cost, a 200 amp hour pack can cost $5K. It's like buying 5 years of gas before you can drive your car. A 200 amp hour pack would give me 150-200 miles of range. More than enough to drive around town. A plus is I have a Ford Escort with 250 horse power. I know where the power comes from. It was a hobby car.
ReplyDeleteGood think we're not discussing tasers.
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, regarding personality, have you seen the various people out there driving their Prius cars? Many have bumper stickers with coexist and other progressive messages.
I suppose hybrids are sexy to some.
How about a V8 with points, plugs, and a condenser?
The problem with the swappable battery idea is that batteries lose capacity with age and use. I would not be interested in changing out my nice new well-treated battery pack for something that may be years old and has been repeatedly overheated.
ReplyDeleteThere's a type of battery called a flow battery that discharges the electrolyte for power. Drain the discharged liquid, fill up with charged electrolyte, and off you go again, and the station charges the liquid it got from your car for the next. Unfortunately, these batteries have a lot less capacity then your normal type as of now, so are not seen much outside laboratories.
In re swapping, wouldn't testing batteries before stocking them in the dispenser be part of the quality control process?
ReplyDeleteAnyway,I'm just blue-skying here and don't pretend to be doing anything but speculating on future possibilities if the incentive motive can spur technological advancement. The point the author seemed to be making in the linked post was to rag on electric car drivers as being unmanly, and while I understand the basis for the stereotype, the fact is that internal combustion engines are presumably a phase before the next one takes over.
In re hydrogen fuel cells in the other comment, sure, if the explosion in a crash safety issue is resolved.
The problem with swapping out batteries is that it requires a standard battery for all vehicles, or at most a very few different standard types. That means the entire automotive industry would have to agree on a standard battery. How likely does that seem? Especially when you consider that you're talking about everything from trucks to minivans to luxury sedans to tiny commuter cars. Quite a difference from your VCR example.
ReplyDeletePlus, there are other issues. Someone who has a brand, spanking new electric vehicle with a battery that is at 99% range capacity isn't going to want to swap that out for a battery that only has 81% capacity. For a vehicle with a 200 mile hypothetical range on a full charge, that's the difference between being able to go 198 miles, and only being able to go 162 miles. Who wants to lose 36 miles range because they are on a long trip and need to do a battery swap?
I also ran the math a while back, and battery swaps aren't that much cheaper than pumping the equivalent range in gas into your car, unless you drive a huge pickup. There is some price advantage, to be sure, but not as much as you would think because you have to spread the cost of the battery out over it's expected lifetime. If it's expected to last 100,000 miles and you get an average 180 miles out of it over its lifetime, that's 556 swaps. If the battery costs $4,000, that means aside from the cost of the electricity to charge it, there will be an extra (4000/556) = $7.20 charge per swap. Not including maintenance for the swap mechanism, and profit. Right now, that battery charge alone would get me (7.20 / 2.35) * 36 = 110 miles worth of gas.
tweell, I don't think the capacity of a flow battery is that much of a problem if you can have a new tank/battery/used tank configuration. You go to the service station and it flushes out everything in your used electrolyte tank and tops off your new tank, and you're on your way. If the two tanks are the same capacity as the battery, you can double the battery capacity, but depending on the size of the vehicle there is no inherent reason why you couldn't increase the capacity of the new and used electrolyte tanks to be significantly larger than the capacity of the battery. You might even be able to triple or quadruple battery capacity that way, and you get the inherent advantage of liquid fuel: Fast "fueling" times and ease of a standard "fuel" that doesn't require anything more than a standard battery chemistry, just like cars and trucks just require standard fuel in gasoline (or diesel).
ReplyDeleteYou'd probably also want a small auxiliary battery that the vehicle could use while it goes into a "flush/fill" cycle on the main battery while you are driving, but that's just a minor issue.
If you are worried about an explosion in a crash you don't want any type of an electric car. Any battery that has a good enough energy density to allow decent range is an explosion just waiting to happen.
ReplyDeleteNot just in a crash either. That is the main reason it is a problem changing and replacing batteries in an electric car. Any minor dent results in an explosion (or a very violent fire) at some point.