We had a good showing (~60 people) at the Lake County Board meeting this morning, but since no board member would pick up the resolution, it stalled.Not one picker-upper. After you disarmed for them and everything.
They've made their position crystal clear: They don't care about you and they don't care about the Constitution.
I'll be interested in seeing what it is you're working on next--and whether or not it has some credible teeth to it.
Its a courthouse.
ReplyDeleteI asked before in the last post: What is your strategy if you don't advocate moving?
You're asking me what is my strategy for implementing your strategy--I don't have one because that's not the side of the street I work. My strategy is all around you. You're soaking in it.
ReplyDeleteDavid,
ReplyDeleteYou write a good column/blog, ask us to talk, write, etc, but then you piss down my back for starting to do something about it.
Here we are in Illinois, we've got folks on our side and we're trying to build decent PR and use the "non-binding" pro-second amendment resolution the same way they did the Cook Co. "Assault Weapon Ban Poll": Basically, they had on the ballot a question and then Larry Suffredin added the then stalled-AWB amendment because it was the "will of the people." Hold a Cook Co. style vote in the last hour before vacation when there was nobody left to oppose and ... Suddenly something "non-binding" became law!
I like your site, and totally appreciate your views, but you don't do much for our side by poking fun at some of us that happen to be stuck in this hole of a state...
Again, I ask any of the folks out there - what would you advocate as a strategy in fighting Cook Co and the rest of Illinois?
Stop for a second and imagine that you were raised as a Chicagoan, suddenly to find yourself "into" guns... Or grew up a farmer in Cook Co. to have your rights taken away.
Do you sell the farm or business? Move away from your relatives? Try to fight?
Whats your answer?
Less--I hardly think saying I employ a different strategy than you is pissing down your back. You're assuming I haven't been part of a political grassroots effort for years--I have, and learned a lot of lessons along the way--which is why I now do things my way.
ReplyDeleteIf you think you can play the political game in IL, and that is the best use of your limited time and resources, but you really can't, don't blame me if it's not working--and don't blame me for pointing that out. If the path you're on yields no results, perhaps you should try a different path. What path? Make it up as you go along and see what does work.
Here you guys did your announcements and got 60 people to the meeting, all obediently disarmed and intent on getting a resolution passed affirming your right to bear arms--I can't help it if the goal and the reality were self contradicting. You don't really expect me not to comment on that, do you?
Now--were I you, and were I intent on playing the political game, I'd be making sure I had the volunteers and resources to do it right--otherwise, you will only be spinning your wheels. Politics at that level is completely sophisticated and ruthless and self-interest motivated. Professionals work at that level.
Have you contacted each supervisor individually--that is, written them AND had a constituent from their district pay them a personal visit and explain what you want--that is, lobbied them? Have you researched each supervisor to know who will be more successfully pressured than others? Any republicans? If so, who has party contacts--anyone? Have you asked them to broker an entree? Do any go to functions--belong to civic organizations--do anything where your members can network with them? Any you can make examples of if they don't play ball? Any have businesses where you can use leverage? What about the meeting itself--did you have a line-up of speakers ready to go, cards all filled out, for public comment? Did anyone notify the media of your presence? Did you have a gathering, with signs, and people ready to talk to reporters? Aside from CCRKBA and sites like this one alerting the gun community, did anyone do a press release and contact local media?
This is all stuff you've got to do--and do thoroughly--if you hope to operate in the local political field.
If you don't have a machine set up to do all this--with a chance of effecting an "or else" at the end of it all, I'm not sure I see the point--particularly since what you're going for will not change one law anyway.
I've given you some local examples--particularly with Mark Kirk--where a concerted effort could tip the balance and punish the sob--and what I hear is nobody lives in his district. I can't help that the RKBA political movement is so nonexistent there that that's the response--it's up to the gun owners who live there to change it.
I'd establish a confederation of local organizations if I were interested in your political path--get a group in every district with meetings maybe twice a month, and have an agenda that you can coordinate with each other--be responsible for grassroots in your area, and also work with others on statewide issues. Everything from political education to letters to the editor to outreach projects, etc.--Let creativity be your guide.
But what I'm hearing is not enough people, not enough time, not enough money and too much apathy. If that's truly the case, and if there is no realistic hope of changing that in the foreseeable future, perhaps avenues other than majority rule democracy will prove more fruitful--like education, advertising, outreach, etc. And hold off on the political until you have a base that will allow you to make a difference.
If you can't punish them for their calumny, you are just begging.
ReplyDeleteBeggars are not highly regarded by the elite. Start working on diselecting the weakest of them as an object lesson to the others. Then go after the rest.
Everywhere they speak, every event they attend be there, be vocal, be noticed by the people who can vote them out, get them on your side.
The folks who post around know I will never buy or do business with any gun company that does business in IL. This situation only proves I"m right, where are the gun companies in that state and any folks they have on the front lines to help with such issue in their own backyard. They are not there, simple as that.
ReplyDeleteDon't buy anything our of IL that is firearm related.
The resolution has passed in 82 counties out of 102. In one county, in one meeting, it didn't pass.
ReplyDeleteYou declared that the whole thing wasn't credible and had no "teeth." The political process achieved shall-issue concealed carry in thirty-some-odd states, with Missouri joining the club only five years ago, but now it's discredited and useless? That's clearly not true, and that's what Less is pointing out.
No I did not. At the time of my post, I was clearly addressing his local effort, and then he introduced the concept of what to do in the rest of Illinois later in comments.
ReplyDeleteI think that David was referring to my allusion to "got something in the works" in our article...
ReplyDeleteRegardless, when asked for info/strategy, David replies with pretty much what we're trying to do - get the unsympathetic folks out of office and the sympathetic ones in: 13 board members are up for re-election.
What is false is saying, "If you think you can play the political game in IL, and that is the best use of your limited time and resources, but you really can't, don't blame me if it's not working--and don't blame me for pointing that out."
As Don points out 82 counties picked this up. The Chicago collar counties are left in addition to the counties containing east St Louis. This is hardly the definition of "not working".
The political process has gotten possible county-based CCW and a positive spin in the local media.
If you can't punish them for their calumny, you are just begging.
Where does it say that we're begging?
To those that advocate not buying anything built in Illinois - how is that supposed to help?
Let me get this straight... You actually WANT more manufactuers and importers - like DSA, Armalite, Springfield Armory, Les Bear - to go out of business?
Some manufacturers have been here a while, before SHTF. Before CCW was ever an issue. If it is not so easy to just get up and go for some folks, imaging doing that to an entire business...
Where does it say that we're begging?
ReplyDeleteIn my comment. Look again, it's there. Or did you mean I can't point that out?
Where does it say that we're begging?
ReplyDeleteIn my comment. Look again, it's there. Or did you mean I can't point that out?
No, you insinuate that we are begging.
We are not.
We asked, thought that the resolution might be picked up and then we lost in the county. We know that some board members are vulnerable in their re-election campaigns... which is exactly how the system works.
Begging implies that we have no control since all power (including voting) has been ceded to them.
Why so quick to judge?
Let's redirect this: Who is vulnerable and how can I help?
ReplyDeleteLess, I was not speaking of your mindset, I was speaking of the difference between being able and willing to offer a service or deliver a punishment as opposed to asking for something to be given at the completely unilateral whim of the prospective donor.
ReplyDeleteThe man who asks for a job is not begging, the man who asks for money for nothing is. Until you can control something they want, they will view you as beggars and as easily dismissed. No matter your mindset.
It was not intended as a personal insult, just a heads-up as to why you will continue to lose until you control something they want.
Hi Guys,
ReplyDeleteWho is vulnerable and how can I help?
Illinois gun owners near Chicago are vulnerable. You are helping by spreading the word...
We're trying to put word into action.
I'm about ready to quit this state, guys. This place is so frustrating sometimes...