I see a lot of people beating up on frequent comment poster "Russn8r" over at my last GRE because he's saying things that they don't want to hear. They're accusing him of being an Obama shill and a Democrat troll because he is pointing out NRA's role in allowing Obamacare to pass.
Here's a real simple test, if you think he's a liar, as many have accused him of being. Take what he's saying here and test it for yourself. We all have access to search engines.
The guy may state things in a provocative and even combative way, but then again, it's not like the folks ready to write him off as an anti-gun "progressive" are showing a willingness to do much more than kill the messenger. And it's not like someone doesn't need to say it in no uncertain terms.
It does us no good to point out how anti-gunners allow themselves to be played as pawns if gun rights advocates refuse to even entertain the possibility that all may not be as they've been led to believe, and if we don't even recognize that the voice warning us is one of our own.
How do I know?
Because I read what he said and it's consistent with many of my own concerns that I've seen corroborated over the years.
And no, it's not me. I post under my own name and very rarely get into arguments in comments because I just don't have the time. I posted this because I thought it needed to be addressed and I get more bang for the buck for my efforts here than being buried in a comment thread.
UPDATE: Here is just one of many factors to consider.
Tuesday, November 11, 2014
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12 comments:
Examiner's censors won't let this in, so I'm posting here:
To all who shot the messenger with vicious ad hominem and other unwarranted, over the top abuse; who don't like your delusions threatened by facts, or too lazy to go get the facts yourselves, so you cry "liar", communist, Democrat, liberal etc.
First go to Codrea’s War On Guns blog and look up “Let’s not be dupes ourselves”.
You don't deserve a reasoned, factual response, but here's small taste of the overwhelming proof out there. That NRA worked with Reid to "fix" Obamacare, providing the cover for it to pass, and then did nothing to stop it, is known among responsible, sentient gun rights activists; evidence is all over the internet. Looking up phrases like "Obamacare Gun Provision" turns up hits like:
"Harry Reid wrote the now famous Obamacare gun provision which he inserted into PL 111-148 with the help of NRA President Wayne LaPierre. Why would Democrat Reid do this? When he was up for re-election a couple years ago, he (a well known gun advocate) contacted Mr. LaPierre to help him get gun owners to vote for him."
Here are excerpts of two 2009-2010 emails from Gun Owners of America. The 1st shows how Republican leadership conserved a well-established "conservative" tradition of preemptive surrender, "fixing" a socialist program just enough so it could pass and become a permanent click on the one-way commie ratchet wrench. It's an old story that accounts for the major advances of socialism in the USA in the last 40 years, and it's the reward Rs get for electing phony Rs instead of real conservatives. The 2nd email explains how Obammunists will use government medicine to attack gun rights.
"Anti-gun ObamaCare at a Crossroads:
Passage or defeat depends on whether Senate Republicans pursue a smart or stupid strategy
Dec 4, 2009
The spectacle on the Senate floor in connection with the anti-gun ObamaCare bill is disgusting. The Senate is debating socialized health care right now, and some Republicans are ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Here's the situation as it stands on the floor...:
(GOA Recommended Email tells the short story):
Dear Senator:
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has agreed to Unanimous Consent agreements which allow for amendments to be offered to ObamaCare - a strategy that will provide Democrats just enough votes to "clean up" this anti-gun bill and get it passed.
We need to stop this sort of request which grease the skids for Harry Reid's freight train.
I don't want this diabolical monstrosity "cleaned up" to make it just "good enough" to get 60 votes. It would restructure the American economy in a way that has not been seen during our lifetime.
Kill the bill outright. NO MORE UNANIMOUS CONSENT AGREEMENTS TO FACILITATE PASSAGE.
I don't want Mitch McConnell to try to make Republicans look good by pretending to be "non-obstructionist." I want Republicans to move heaven and earth to protect Americans from Harry Reid's socialist scheme.
Sincerely,..."
--continued--
-continued-
"GOA Alert
Jan 7, 2010
Here's where we're at on socialized health care. House & Senate passed two very different bills. Obamacare can't go to the President until they iron out the differences.
The legislation moves us down the road to socialism and will result in more gun owners being disqualified from owning firearms.
We need to renew our efforts to kill ObamaCare, an outcome that is still very doable...
The following despicable practices were perpetrated to push ObamaCare through the Senate last month:
Lies
* For months, Senators claimed there were no anti-gun provisions. But everyone knew they were lying. So last month, a provision was inserted into the Senate bill, which is claimed to allay the concerns of gun owners, but leaves the most important problem unremedied. If they weren't lying to begin with, why "fix" what they claimed wasn't there?
* Senators now insist the current Senate bill protects gun owners even though it still lets BATFE & FBI troll the ObamaCare database for gun owners to disqualify over medical information. This could result in millions of Americans who suffer (or have suffered) from PTSD and similar conditions being put into the NICS system and denied the right to buy firearms."
-
Clearly NRA helped pass Obamacare. Only ONE more vote was needed to stop cloture. The NRA had 10 "A" & "A+" Dems, 2 "B" Dems (including Harry Reid), and 5 "C" & "C-" Dems. None of the As or Bs could survive in their states with the D or F ratings they really deserve. All NRA needed was to force ONE of them to vote against cloture (or not vote). Instead they worked with Reid to "fix" it then ostensibly stood neutral because "it wasn't a gun control bill".
And for those who imagine they were protected by the Reid-LaPierre Gun Provision, see GOA's 28 June 2012 alert,
"ObamaCare Decision Means Feds Will Continue to Cull Gun Owner Information"
This isn't about me. The truth is independent of the messenger. But for those who don't know that ad hominem is a despicable maneuver to evade & suppress truth, I will note that I'm fairly confident that as a gun rights activist since the 1970s, I've organized, managed, acted, donated, done & sacrificed 1,000 times more for the Republic, gun rights and American liberty than all of the chatroom warriors who attacked me combined.
I am a LIfe Member of GOA, but I was a member of the NRA for over twenty years, until I was awakened to the fact that the NRA has co-authored _every_ major piece of anti-gun legislation starting back in 1934. When the NRA failed - deliberately - to inform us members of the Lautenberg Amendment and it's impact on gun owners, and I discovered they had a hand in helping to write it, I terminated my membership.
The NRA enjoys being a "player" in D.C., but they do NOT have gun owners rights and interests as a priority. Getting your dues and donations, and being seen as a major player are their only agendas. In addition, they try to make their members - and the rest of the world - think they are responsible for the few good things that have happened in defense of gun rights.
The Heller decision ( a mixed bag of good and bad) was not due to their involvement. They tried to stop SAF and Alan Gura from running that through SCOTUS, claiming it "wasn't the right time". Being the NRA, when Gura won the case - which the NRA added their name to when they couldn't stop it from happening - they claimed the victory as their own, as if they were responsible for pushing it through. A total lie.
The NRA has never been a friend of the Second Amendment and gun owners. They have been responsible for compromising away a significant portion of our natural rights, and for undermining the protection that the Second Amendment was written to provide.
Money spent supporting them is money spent assisting those who would take away our rights. Support them and you will find that the gun collection at the very expensive NRA building (where the staff enjoy their own gun range at our expense) will eventually be the only place you can go to see the guns it used to be "legal" for us to own, use, and carry.
I first read the post and watched the video of proud Obola economist Jonathan Gruber railing about the duped, stupid voters over at WRSA: http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/shriveled-putz-share-near-and-far/
The majority of comments flamed Gruber and his missive "Obamacare Architect: ‘Stupidity of American Voters’ Was ‘Critical’ To Passing Obamacare.
What I found interesting, is I didn't disagree with Gruber. I wholeheartedly agree, that the average voter is, indeed, stupid.
When I came late to the table at DC's Examiner post, and started reading the flaming that occurred against poster Rusn8r, my hypothesis regarding the stupidity of the American voter became a theory.
I read facts, citations and search terms provided by rusn8r, and replies such as "Liar," "You must be Obama" "You must be a liberal" "You must be a Hillary lover" - yet not a single factual rebuttal of rusn8r's supportive facts.
It really pains me to learn that many NRA supporters are, in fact, dupes. But after watching the Republican Primary debacles, in which entrenched RINO's consistently beat "Tea Party" conservatives - by employing stratagems such as robo-calling Democrats with lies that the Tea Party candidate was KKK, and yet, the so-called "conservative" base couldn't muster enough votes to oust this RINO. Interestingly, with an alleged 10% approval rating, most of Congress was still reelected. Is the voting base duped, or do they crave mediocrity?
I know people who get all the "facts" from FOX News, to those who get all the "facts" from NPR. So - which group is truly informed?
If one does a YouTube search, one can find instances of a plethora of "news" outlets leading with the EXACT SAME PHRASEOLOGY on news stories.
As I write, in Germany, German citizens are currently running away in droves from Main-Stream print and internet media, in favor of bloggers and "non-sanctioned" news sources. The reason? They've discovered that their beloved media have been usurped by CIA and who knows what other interests.
Still, people in this country obtain their "facts" from the Hegelian "left" and "right" news sources, and claim to know what is actually happening.
If readers of the WOG Blog haven't yet learned - after the F&F debacle - for instance, that MSM is controlled media, you have no excuse for being duped.
Now, Jonathan Gruber states the truth - that Obama Care passed by way of stupid, uninformed voters, and yet, people are angry. Similarly, Rusn8r posits, replete with facts and Google search terms - for those who would bother to use the Google - the simple, unvarnished fact that NRA cronies helped pass Obama Care, and the duped masses arrive with pitchforks and vitriolic assaults.
A small group who are either willing to actually check the facts understand that they can fact check Rusn8r, and are supportive.
Thus, in two simple tests, the hypothesis about stupid, duped voters, becomes an actual theory.
If the videos by Mark Dice and others who test voters at those paragons of learned information - American college campuses - don't convince you that the U.S.A. is inhabited by dupes and morons, go about your merry way, and band together with your zealous clan, baptized in the religious beliefs of FOX News or MSNBC.
However, if you wish to shed the chains of ignorance, try fact checking the source of your belief.
If you believe wholeheartedly in NRA ratings, Harry Reid is your man - until he isn't. George HW Bush is your man - until he burns his NRA membership card.
Meanwhile, the Republicans are already talking about walking back their pledge to defy Obama on illegal immigration. Republican Mandate? Really? What did we win?
Rusn8r deserves contempt, because he dares speak the truth? Brand him a heretic, burn him at the stake, and go one being a zealous DUPE.
Here's your sign.
Unfortunately, simply being a gun-owner, member of the NRA, "conservative", etc. etc. doesn't guarantee anything about one's willingness to think.
I'm a 40+ year Life Member of the NRA, and wish that in 1968, 1986, 1992, etc etc more than 5% of American gun-owners had been also. Maybe the outcomes would have been much different. Maybe not.
That said I'm not today a big fan of the NRA but I'm not going to give up my membership. I haven't given them any money in over a dozen years at least. Other gun organizations seem to be more on point with their efforts but the NRA still wields a lot of clout in Congress. But it is an organization run by human beings and they, like all human beings, are not perfect.
That said, mindless defense of the NRA, or mindless criticism of the NRA, are both stupid actions.
Russn8r is for the most part correct in his description of what the NRA did during the passage of Obozocare, and maybe if they had actively opposed Obozocare it might not have passed.
But it might have anyway.
The NRA bills itself as a single issue organization. As such its efforts with Obozocare make sense.
I think the NRA needs to change that idea because of illegal immigration, Obozocare, and other strategies of the "progressive" movement but I don't have the power alone to change that.
On the other hand I don't think cancelling my membership would change anything.
Scott
Phx AZ
Scott,
"Mindless criticism"? When you are presented with facts, how does that criticism become mindless - except to dupes who swallow the lie?
I've heard - for years - the old, "yeah, but look at all the NRA has done for us" meme. Yes, please look: it has actively compromised our rights away with every piece of major (and some minor) legislation that has affected our gun rights.
It is not a matter of "gosh, we make mistakes, too". I spoke directly to several people who worked for LaPierre who told me, "That's the way the game is played in D.C." Sure, if it is a game. That is why the NRA supports both sides, including Harry Reid. That is why they give money to Democrats as often as they do to Republicans (many of whom are RINOs, anyway). That is why Congress men who vote against the Second Amendment still get A's from the NRA.
Clinging to a belief that the NRA is in business to protect our gun rights is a much better definition of "mindless". They are in business for themselves, their high salaries, their perks, and the enjoyment of being used by Congress and the media as a stalking horse, to make gullible gun owners think that their rights are actually being fought for. They aren't - they are simply being compromised away, bit by bit.
NRA's support of the Lautenberg Amendment - making gun owners _retroactively_ subject to the loss of their right to own a firearm should have been a neon sign to anyone paying attention.
So, please tell me - who is mindless now?
Hope you like Obamacare, Scott. All that clout and the NRA helped it pass by ONE vote. Your money helped make it happen. People like you send them the clear message that they can do whatever they want with impunity and you'll still be a member and send him your member money, and you help keep Gilway from getting big enough to stop them
Perfect description, Reg T - NRA "leadership" calling Washington DC a game. Too bad the joke is on us.
FWIW - I'm also a Life Member. I no longer fund NRA, haven't for over a decade. I suggest that Scott and others in Arizona check out AZCDL - who actually works for gun rights in Arizona, and GOA, who has a valid rating system.
I was finished with the NRA when the California assault weapons ban video came out. In it the NRA narrator said, not verbatim, "So like any law abiding citizen Mr. Schmuck turned in his SKS-D."
Though I will admit I did join right after Sandy Hook only because the membership fee of $25 was offset by a $25 dollar gift card to Bass Pro Shop. I didn't renew.
You bring back old memories, Joe K.
All of this was worth reading.
Lessons learned, is not enough; the real question is: Lessons heeded?
Yes.
Argh. Damn Siri. My post above should read "GOA", not "Gilway". Corrected:
Hope you like Obamacare, Scott. All that clout and the NRA helped it pass by ONE vote. Your money helped make it happen. People like you send them the clear message that they can do whatever they want with impunity and you'll still be a member and send him your member money, and you help keep GOA from getting big enough to stop them.
Russn8r
Also, RegT: good summary of the "game", aka Beltway Kabuki.
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