I don't want to debate Ruby Ridge or Waco because you seem to know less than I do. But thanks for assuming I know nothing. I actually know a lot about Lon Horiuchi. I do know he helped rescue hostages that were being held in a hotel and was deployed to several missions in Mexico to stop the drug trade.Judging from the comments, it would seem an old post has touched a nerve...
Friday, May 05, 2006
Lon Horiuchi and the JB...Uh..HRT Heroes
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14 comments:
Uh, ok...
"I do know he helped rescue hostages that were being held in a hotel and was deployed to several missions in Mexico to stop the drug trade."
He helped rescue hostages from a hotel? Where? I think I would remember a story about hostages being held in a hotel in the US. If it was outside the US than WTF?
Does the FBI now have a mandate to work internationally? Apparently it does because they were also in Mexico, and Kosovo?
I think if this is true then questions need to be answered. As I understand the rules the CIA is prohibited from working domestically, and the FBI is the domestic criminal investigative branch of the justice department, NOT an international paramilitary unit!
Since when is the federal bureau of investigation a group that should be fighting the drug war in Mexico (DEA), or running protective detail for aid workers in Kosovo (UN, NATO, US Military, CIA)?
This is either BS by the poster, or a real problem of a GROSS overreach of the FBI mandate.
Some people just don't take criticism very well. There are some who believe that questioning their organization is morally reprehensible because they are dedicated to doing "good". How dare you?! This guy's rant reminds of my criticism of charitable organizations who've wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars due to poor management. They get upset when you wonder why only $.30 of every dollar donated is actually given toward their cause. The reminder is lost in "administrative" expenses.
Ugh....
Sorry to create such a stir. I found this site while doing research on the FBI Critical Incident Response Group and HRT.
Maybe I was a little over the top on my original post but it seemed that everyone was trying to do the educating when they didn't have many facts for themselves.
Yes, the FBI can operate internationally. They have offices set up in 50 countries around the world. If you think I'm full of BS check this out. http://www.fbi.gov/contact/legat/legat.htm
I guess I just don't understand the hatred. Many of you didn't know that the FBI was protecting Humanitarian Aid Workers or that agents were killed in Saudi Arabia investigating Terrorism. And then once you do find this out, you switch gears and find yet another reason to hate them. I thought about joining one of those teams. But I really can't see doing that now when I would be hated by the people I was trying to help.
Lastly, I'm not trying to say they're perfect. But, everyone is yelling at me to learn something and hopefully at least now you can see that the original set of questions would only mean something if HRT ONLY rescued hostages.
Sorry to interrupt your club.
Humbly,
Trev
Trev, the plain facts are that the FBI shot and killed people at Ruby Ridge and Waco, all based on trumped up gun charges from F Troop, or the BATFEces, as I call them. When they resisted, and defended themselves, the Feds went apes#*t and sent you in to kill them all. Live with it!
Not a club,really,chief. More like a disassociated collection of people from all walks of life, who love freedom and liberty and see what their government does and says and find it hard to keep from vomiting into the screen.See? We're just like you. Only we're not full of sh*t. And we're not parasitacal cheese-eating socialist surrender monkeys.'m kay?
Trev,
You point to the FBI site and they say internationally they have "small offices" and act as follows:
"Their activities? Staffed with agents and a support staff, they:
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Coordinate international investigations with their colleagues;
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Cover international leads for domestic U.S. investigations;
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Link U.S. and international resources in critical criminal and terrorist areas that better ensure the safety of the American public here and abroad. The rules for joint activities and information sharing are generally spelled out in formal agreements between the United States and the Legat's host country; and
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Coordinate FBI training classes for police in their geographic areas—everything from counterterrorism and cybercrime matters to forensic techniques to human trafficking and human rights."
Maybe I missed the part where there is an authorization to conduct overseas paramilitary operations such as drug interdiction, or NGO security.
You should not misconstrue the comments of the people on this board as unpatriotic; nothing could be further from the truth.
But the fact is that groups like the HRT and the BATFE have clearly exceeded their mandate. They are by their very being un-American.
The founding fathers were smart; by design they created a government that was wary of a too powerful federal component.
They were opposed to a national police, what is the HRT/ BATFE become if not national SWAT teams, ones that do not have to answer to the states.
"I guess I just don't understand the hatred..."
Trev, if you stick around for a while and read the articles that David posts and links to you'll start to understand.
One of the purposes of this blog (and David will correct me if I'm wrong) and others like it is to broadcast the daily abuses of power by gov't entities and the actions they take to trample our rights and liberties ("War on Guns" is another name for "War on Freedom"). Often times those abuses result in the unnecessary deaths of citizens (Waco and Ruby Ridge) who were simply defending themselves. And these guilty "agencies" are not held accountable for these atrocities. This blog was not created to promote the benefits of the FBI or praise its actions. That's what sites like www.fbi.gov are for.
You would be hostile, too, if you were part of a group (freedom-loving gun owners) that was constantly attacked, demonized, insulted, alienated, harassed, and crucified by gov't entities, foreign entities (UN), left-wing journalists, political anti-gun organizations, and anyone else that is has never touched a gun and has no idea what freedom is about.
Rationalize away Trevvy. Whatever lets you sleep at night with such a dirty conscience. The Federal Bureau of Incompetence is a useless, money wasting thug haven and you seem to be proud of that. The FBI has completely discredited themselves in the eyes of the public, just look at the crime lab fiasco, not to mention Ruby Ridge and Waco. Trying to educate us? We all know what the FBI HRT is capable of and have followed the story of Ruby Ridge and Waco as they continue to unfold. Let's see, 3 million dollar settlement to Randy Weaver and family, only Randy convicted of anything and that was the original charge he was entrapped on, and not one scum bag thug agent held accountable in any way for gross negligence, incompetence and murder. And these are "people" we should respect? Get a grip on yourself man!
Jason and 1894,
Thank you for the responses. Yours were the only ones with information in them that got me out of a defensive mode and were not filled with insults and attacks. Having to endure that really puts people in a corner and doesn't allow them to hear what you have to say.
I'm not totally sold yet but I'll stick around for a while and do some reading.
That being said, sorry to David for the attack in the original post. Though it did start some discussion.
Trev
Trev, let me explain something about the people here. I am going into no/no land to do it. I usually hate people that use movies to make a point. But I will just have to hate myself, for that is what I am going to do.
I would bet that everybody here when they watch a movie about crime or read a crime thriller, they root for the protagonist. Which is almost always a cop of some sort at some leve. Yet we will turn around and call for Horiuchi to be sent to jail, and we appear to be anti-cop or anti law enforcement.
This is not a contradiction. In the fiction of the movie or the novel the cop is the good guy. He abides the law and has a moral compass that impels him to do right. We identify with him and want him to prevail.
Reality isn't that neat. Many times the cops are not the good guys and many times they pay no penalty for the evil they perpetrate. We know this. We do not confuse reality with fiction. In reality we must make moral judgments about the people wearing the badge because we don't get to pen the storyline wherein we make sure they are the good guys. Reality is often disappointing. And seems to be more disappointing by the day.
What do you call a cop that breaks the law? Or is brutal for no reason? Or takes bribes? or commits perjury because he just knows the guy did it, but he has no evidence? or shoots someone in the back that moving away from them saying they feared for their lives?
What? A criminal. That is what you call them. That is what we don't like, criminals. We especially don't like criminals with a badge because they are damn near untouchable by justice.
Stick around, you'll see what we are talking about. All of us respect and admire the honest cop. We just don't feel obligated to cover for the others and it pisses us off that otherwise honest cops do.
And by the way, the BATFE is an agency whose sole purpose is to violate the constitution of the United States. Reread the second amendment. Everything that particular group of thugs does is a violation of the supreme law of the land, and it is their charter.
That should scare the Hell out of everybody, but unfortunately, ignorance does, in fact, seem to be bliss.
I am curious if per capita, do law enforcement officers violate the law more or less often as the general public does. Anyone have any idea? The moonbats seem to think that LEO's are the only ones safe and trained enough to have firearms.
Trev, you seem to have a more open mind on this issue. My apologies for jumping all over you.
The others are right, though. The BATFE is an agency set up to control guns. That is their mandate, and as such, they are meant to infringe the 2A. This makes them an agency set up to deliberately break the supreme law of the land. In the cases of Waco and Ruby Ridge, they tried to entrap citizens on "we say so" gun charges, but Randy Weaver and the Davidians both chose not to play their game. When they defended themselves, the gov't pretty much declared war on American citizens, and the FBI had to take command of the issue. After that, it was a foregone conclusion.
Lon and the others may have done good work in combatting real crime in other cases, but that does not excuse them for their parts in Waco and Ruby Ridge.
These are also the kinds of things that make us look upon our gov't with a jaundiced eye.
It came to me a few years ago, by a good source, that Lon and some of his treacherous friends showed up a Thunder Ranch taking instruction under false identities. Someone recognized him and he and the rest of the butchers inc. were run off, under very strained circumstances. It is unlawful in Texas to carry false identification and it is unlawful to obtain services under false pretenses. I understand there were instructors there that were off duty police officers. Lon and his friends should have been arrested and charged, but then again the high and mighty are above the law. The HRT should not need any civilian training so it probably goes without saying that they were up to no good.
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