Tuesday, November 25, 2008

H-S Precision and Horiuchi?

What is being represented as the back of the H-S Precision catalog is circulating on the Internet. The reason this is controversial is because it represents notorious FBI sniper killer Lon Horiuchi endorsing the company. This is then represented by various posters as H-S "hiring" Horiuchi.

Here's the thing--I ain't sayin' it ain't, but has anyone verified this information?

It's pretty easy to PhotoShop a cover, and the thing is, I see everyone in comments on various gun boards diving into Zumbo/Cooper boycott mode, and no voices calling for fact check before action.

A company's reputation and peoples' livelihoods are at stake here, including those in the supply chain. If it can be verified the cover is legitimate, there will be a resulting and deserved grassfire. If it is determined somebody's yanking our chains for reasons unknown, I do hope everybody piling on will be as quick and enthusiastic about correcting the record.

I'm holding off on judgment until I can verify this one myself. Anyone with actual knowledge on this, please educate the rest of us.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

David, I thank you very much for the education on the subject. I am glad that i visited here before I visited The High Road. There seems to be a lot of sensationalism and blind action, of which I would have expected from the Brady Camp. It is very saddening, as Myself and My Generation will be the ones who take the yoke once they are done, and WE will have to shoulder the burden of the bad image they cast.

The Freeholder said...

David, thanks for saying that. I made a similar comment on a forum I participate in, and saying that I was shot down in flames is putting it nicely. It seems that if it's on the Intertubz, it must be true.

I've tried some Googles of H&S's site, and I can't find anything to back this story up. The only mentions I find in the wider net are all to this story, presented in various places.

I have to wonder if this is something dreamed up by "the other side" in an attempt to get us all to look like fools.

Anonymous said...

The founder knows Horiuchi. Horiuchi helped HS Precision get an FBI contract. He is NOT employed by the company.

Anonymous said...

OK boys, this seems like a sane and safe place for this little mama to bring up a few points on the topic of HS-Precision and Horiuchi... Grab a cup of coffee, take a seat and help me understand a few things...

First - This is on the 2008 catalog. It's almost December, which means this has been out for 11 months... and you are all just noticing this now??? What gives? Do you not read all these piles of magazines and catalogs that grow like bunnies around my house?

Second - Ruby Ridge, Waco - were horrible events that none of us really understand the justification for, but he acted under orders. I know that is not an acceptable reason for most, but it is what it is. I KNOW many a vet from our wars that have followed orders and have taken innocent lives.

Finally, And most importantly... do you boys realize that every time you get a fire in your britches about some marketing mistake made by our firearms industry - it only fuels the arguments to take away our 2nd amendment rights? "Gun maker has murderer as spokesperson.“ Good Lord boys! The mainstream media would love to get a hold of such a headline, creating more fear about guns and fueling an attack on our second amendment rights. - Thus, preventing you from protecting your little mamas like me.

HS made a bad marketing decision - but do you really want to burn them down? They are a FAMILY OWNED business, they haven't sold out to some impersonal investment group that could give two shakes about our love for guns. They are ALL AMERICAN MADE, they haven't sold out to cheap junk over seas. If you disagree with thier decision, send em an email, but don't wish your ally out of business and whine about it all over the net.

HS is a good company that makes top quality stuff. Just seeing so many guys talking about Christmas lists on other blogs speaks volumes about how much you all love their stuff.

Now, most of the time when the boys are sipping their coffee, eating my homemade cookies and talking guns - I listen, but getting your whitey-tighties in a wad with intent to take down conservative, patriotic companies that have made ONE bad marketing decision is where I draw the line and need to speak up.

Perhaps if you all would get as fired up about your politicians as you are about one of your own, we wouldn’t have a “bail out” nor an anti-gun President in our near future.

Have another cup of coffee and think about it.

Sincerely - one gun-luvin' mama (and top of the cookie chain!)

Anonymous said...

Actually "gun luvin mama", I want to see Horiuchi hang by the neck until dead. You know like all those SS boys who were only following orders.

GunRights4US said...

Somehow I can't envision Horiuchi's supervisor whispering in his ear "I want that baby-toting mother shot in the face right this instant".

And even IF that were the case, I well know that the trials at Nuremberg firmly established the concept that a man has a duty to disobey orders that are unlawful on their face.

Horiuchi is a contemptible swine, and everyone OUGHT to know this by now.

Anonymous said...

Although David's skepticism is well-placed, the ad is, I am assured by someone who has seen it, correct as presented and not photoshopped.

It has been established that Horiuchi took the shot after being briefed that "Mrs. Weaver is the key to the family's cohesiveness."

H-T Precision gets whatever they deserve for this one. They should have known better.

SamenoKami said...

Anonymous sez-I KNOW many a vet from our wars that have followed orders and have taken innocent lives.
-------
What the HELL are you talking about?
Ruby Ridge was not a war. Unless you count it as a war on freedom, a war on US citizens.
Making the moral equivalence argument between a declared shooting war and cops/Feds going to arrest someone on a crappy gun charge is off the chart stupid. Horiuchi shot an UN-ARMED woman as she held a CHILD. There are not enough cuss words to talk about Anon's inane mindless comment and Horiuchi's/Fed's actions.

Horiuchi needs to be tried, convicted and hung by the neck till dead. His supervisor needs to be doing life in prison as Bubba's butt-sex girlfriend.

Anonymous said...

Horiuchi still inhales & exhales? Such an endorsement would resemble Dr. Eichman recommending surgical instruments.

jon said...

"... and you are all just noticing this now???"

excuse us for not being subscribers to every single catalog from every single manufacturer, ever. you see my point? neither "you all" nor "every catalog, ever" is truly accurate. stop sensationalizing about a nobody that, apparently, badly needed a government contract to make any money.


"he acted under orders"

if that's all you've got to say about it, allow me to point out that all government-sponsored genocidal rampages are carried out using these "orders" you speak of.


"every time you get a fire in your britches about some marketing mistake made by our firearms industry - it only fuels the arguments to take away our 2nd amendment rights?"

you must be kidding. is this the new discussion-silencing scapegoat? "it takes away our rights?" could you explain the mechanism a little better? it seems to me that anyone, including the brady camp, could have simply uncovered the evidence themselves. it requires a discussion in the gunny community in order to condemn and boycott the H-S Precisions of the world.


"FAMILY OWNED," "ALL AMERICAN MADE"

the patriot button doesn't work anymore.


"cheap junk over seas"

i thought you were pushing patriot buttons? no free market, after all? mixed signals are nothing to laugh about.


"if you all would get as fired up about your politicians"

i was in fact quite fired up -- both candidates were downright horrible. voting, of course, is unjustified aggression, so i'm sorry, but i can't help you there.

perhaps your team would have won had they nominated ron paul. perhaps, if you would get as fired up about the primaries as you did about the general election, against The Other Guy, we wouldn't have had to choose a bail-out, anti-gun candidate from between two bail-out, anti-gun presidential candidates.


sincerely.

Anonymous said...

"...the new discussion-silencing scapegoat? "it takes away our rights?" could you explain the mechanism a little better?"

I thought I had explained that by suggesting that instead of going to the net, we send the company an email.



"...I well know that the trials at Nuremberg firmly established the concept that a man has a duty to disobey orders that are unlawful on their face."

"...Feds going to arrest someone on a crappy gun charge"

points taken. Thank you.

- Gunlovin' mama

Anonymous said...

Perhaps someone here could run the lead-up to Ruby Ridge past us again to refresh our memories?

I seem to remember that an ATF provocateur, asked Weaver to cut a gun barrel down to a line the agent had measured, Weaver wanted to check the measurement but was persuaded not to check....

Apart from general disagreement with Weaver's "white seperatist" views, and refusal to attend a show trial, Weaver was no danger to anyone.

what the hell justification was there to shoot his dogs, his son and his wife?

Could someone more familliar with the history run it past us again please?

Brent

Anonymous said...

Brent:

Here's a good starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

Anonymous said...

I know it's wikipedia, but if someone were to read just that article, they would almost certainly come away feeling a bit puzzled as to why there is such a fuss made over what is obviously a crazy white racist who was such an evil person, selling "sawed-off" shotguns and subsequently holing up in his compound. As for his wife? Well, she was behind the door, and the brave FBI sniper just didn't know it!

Anonymous said...

Just looking at the first five results from a google search on "Lon Horiuchi" should suffice to explain why members of the gun community get pissed off when they hear his name.

Anonymous said...

The above statement [Anon 11-26 10:30] gives all the evidence anyone will ever need that the Disarmament Movement is political in nature, and that the term "reasonable", as it appears in legal wording, is actually a placeholder for whatever restriction the state may invent, for its own convenience, at a later date. (I cannot recall one instance where a referendum was held in order to determine the bounds of "reasonable", prior to the state acting. Therefore, the reasoning is done solely by the state.)

The Movement doesn't have anything to do with crime reduction, safety, protecting children, or reason for that matter.

I wonder, does it occur to the disarmers that when the legislature creates statutory law in violation of the Constitution, that this condition leaves the courts to sort out the mess? This guarantees that the bulk of the cases involving restriction of liberty will involve those accused of criminal acts--and the state does not display a sense of obligation to limit its intrusion to those cases where the life and property of one citizen is violated by another. Here the disarmer has a friend in the statist, who would ignore the fact that an arrest is not proof of a crime, stand up in the jury box, and scream "Guilty!" at first sight of the Defendant.


Here are some excerpts from the Disarmer's Dictionary, for the purposes of clarifying this discussion:


Brave;
(adjective)

1: Possessing legal immunity.

--

Holed-up;
(compound verb)

1: The state of being inside one's home.

--

Sawed-off Shotgun;
(noun)

1: A smoothbore firearm with a barrel short enough to eliminate the possibility that it is a relic from the 19th Century; indicating that the firearm may be functional, and is therefore perceived as a threat by a paranoid, militarized state.

--

White Separatist;
(noun)

1: A description that, when applied to a subject, acts as a sufficient replacment for a warrant, a legally-exercised power, and a trial by jury.

NotClauswitz said...

What a sick creep. I would avoid him and any public association if I were in business. An "endorsement" is eerily grotesque in a train-wreck kind of way. Gaah.

Jeff ( Va. Rebel ) said...

I'd read several places that Mr. Weaver was also being pressured into infiltrating Aryan Nations as a snitch ... and he still refused .

I'm sure this murder
( and the shooting of his son Sammy in the back , the wounding of Kevin Harris )was their response .
They mocked the huddled and scared family inside by loud speaker as Vickie Weaver's lifeless body lay under their kitchen table .

Brave bastards indeed .