Meet "Blain":
Ad hominem arguments are much easier than an intellectual debate aren't they? We all only know what we've read about the HRT. I'm willing to guess that none of you have been in the FBI nor have you had any direct relation to them. So we're forced to examine our sources and form an opinion. I for one take the word of a college educated man who chose the path of law enforcement over a white supremacist who stated "The tyrant's blood shall flow" and "Whether we live or die we will not obey you…war is upon our land."As for the last question, oh, I don't know...it's not like governments have ever committed genocide on unfavored segments of their populations before...but in fairness, our current government will generally settle for obedience. The killing only happens if people resist and defy.
I'm just interested in why you believe your own government would pay for an organization just to kill it's own citizens. What would be the purpose?
And we all know "college educated men" have never committed acts of violence, right Professor Kaczynski? Why I'd bet every one of the feds at Waco had a college degree...
As for that comment about the "tyrants blood," wow, what kind of sicko would utter such a thought? Ditto that part about resisting to the death...
Weaver was a "separatist," Blain, not a "supremacist." There is a difference, and whether one finds it distasteful or not, it's not supposed to mean a death sentence for his wife and son. And we don't have to "take [his] word" for anything--there's that little documented matter of the $3.1 M settlement...
But it sure says a lot about you, that you prefer to believe someone who "chose the path of law enforcement," Blain. As we've seen time and again here at WarOnGuns, they are "the only ones" professional, responsible, believable...enough...
Here are a few of my sources for my opinions on the Weaver incident, Blain. When the prosecutor in the Horiuchi case rolls over after the feds put the squeeze on him with a felony rap, I start to get a tad uneasy with who I can believe...
Horiuchi Prosecutor Forges Ahead
Idaho Prosecutor Under Investigation
Confessions from Ruby Ridge
I love what this state-worshiping creature passes for "intellectual debate". If I'd posted comments this stupid, I'd delete them too.
Oops. That wasn't an "ad hominem" attack, was it?
I believe Mr. Adams would like to have a word with you, Blain. He's much more level-headed about these things than I am.
13 comments:
Might I point out to revisionist and sycophant Blain that every federal law enforcement agent at that cabin, except Degan who was rightfully shot dead, lied about the entire incident from how the surveillance was mounted to the precipitating event. Resulting initially in Randy Weaver being charged with three counts of murder. Every single one of them lied. That is perjury when a law enforcement officer knowingly falsifies official reports of an incident.
It was a lowly sheriff's deputy who grew a conscience and came forward and told the truth about how Degan was the first to fire on unsuspecting people, killing the dog. People that didn't even know anyone was there.
Had this man not come forward, Mr. Weaver would have been convicted of the crimes. How is it that when the actual events were admitted by a law enforcement official these events were no longer crimes? Did the three dead people suddenly come to life?
Blain, you say you prefer to believe these people over Weaver. Ok. No problem. Do you also prefer to believe them over a law enforcement officer who incriminated himself and them when he could have avoided doing so by just being quiet? Can you think of any reason a man would lie himself into such a situation? Can you think of any reason men would try to lie themselves out of it?
I don't believe you when you try to pretend rationality and analysis are your reasons for support of law enforcement in this case, or for that matter in any other. Murder is not law enforcement. Horiuchi committed murder, everybody else there committed perjury to cover for it. Except one who initially did, couldn't live with the lie and changed his mind and told the truth.
I think your fear has you saying loudly what you say, in the hopes that "they" will know you support them and if they come to your area, they won't target you. Sort of like kissing the bully's ass.
You handled your words well, but you don't handle facts worth a damn. Since you are not stupid, there must be a less honorable reason for that.
Don't forget US Marshall Cooper, who testified before a congressional committee that it had to have been Randy Weaver that shot & killed 14 yr old Sammy Weaver. Later it was discovered through a precise scene examination that the bullet that killed Sammy came from Cooper's gun. What a disgusting scumbag Cooper is, a cold blooded child killer walking the streets free with no conscience what so ever.
Also don't forget Horiuchi's testimony in Randy Weaver's trial. Horiuchi was caught red handed perjuring himself and got off scott free. We are supposed to trust these animals to give the public a fair shake? Get real. If jurors would disallow almost any conviction where a certain federal officers testify, maybe these animals would get the message to clean up their act.
not amused, you don't need the metal door. The videotape shows who fired first. I could see it and so has everybody else whom I showed where to look.
If you get another chance to view an unaltered tape watch the muzzle of the rifle of the man on the far left. You will see the compression waves as he fires four times as soon as the door opens somewhere between 18" and 2 feet.
I knew your were being ironic. I just have had experience with people that have seen the tape and not knowing what they saw. If you can find your copy, watch it again and you will the compression waves I talked about from the weapon at the far left, then the door slams and bullets come through from inside.
the shock waves are small, but they easily seen. Let me know if you see what I described.
Excellent post David. See the old fire is back!
I've never been able to understand why someone would desire to work in the government to begin with. I even made the mistake myself for a short period. And decided I'd NEVER do it again.
The commonly held reason used to be, for many, because they wanted to do some good for their fellow man. But the real thing about government is, that it has ALWAYS been about control and power. For that is the NATURE of the beast. Therefore, one has to ask, does the gov. employee like being controlled or to control?
The founders plainly indicated the inherent dangers associated with people being in 'power'. Power corrupts, and if left unchecked, it corrupts absolutely.
The Right of the people to Keep and Bear Arms was meant to be a crucial part of that system of checks and balances. It was meant to help keep the natural propensity of power, to corrupt those that wield it, in check.
Most of the drool you hear from the Anti-Gun crowd, inevitably turns to 'we have to take into account the safety of our law enforcement people'. Which supposition totally dismisses the whole reason for having the people to be armed to begin with! Sound reasoning? Hardly.
Who do these people think that they are? They are effectively disarming or inhibiting the population by using this ploy! It has been historically PROVEN to have very DEADLY consequences. It places the welfare of the servant above that of their TRUE employers.
Removing,limiting or regulating the last crucial 'check' in the intended system is, in TRUTH, Constitutionally REPUGNANT and therefore NULL and VOID.
The only conclusion that one can reasonably arrive at. Is that those that go into these fields DESIRE to have POWER. And wish to have the supposed AUTHORITY to exercise CONTROL over their fellow man. What kind of psychotic mind thinks like that?
I know the above doesn't apply to ALL people that go into these fields. Because I've personally encountered some very decent ones. But, it seems the majority take on the inevitable 'superior' attitude.
Here is the 'acid test'. Let me ask you something 'Blain'. (And truthfully answer these for yourself, if you value your soul). Just who do you suppose the Legitimate authority is? Or how about the Ultimate Authority? For what purpose was our Constitution established in the first place? And for whom? Do YOU know the correct answer?
You government people have done a BRILLIANT job at our borders, BTW! And if government is so full of good people, how come it's so corrupt? Why is our country in seemingly insurmountable debt? And what have We The People to show for ALL OUR MONEY THAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE WASTED?
It's time for the SERVANTS to PULL THEIR HEADS OUT! And realizes that IS ALL THAT THEY REALLY ARE - SERVANTS! You are NOT our masters or our handlers! You and people with your attitude have completely CORRUPTED the best system of government EVER DEVISED by man!
Superior? I don't think so. You government people should be ashamed of yourselves.
When my significant other was getting her CHL instructors initial certification in the state capitol at the state trooper academy, one of the things she was told by the trooper that was the head of the CHL division, was that most criminals and leo's have a common thread in their personalities. I call it the "bully syndrome". Many leo's can shuck it off, but many are unable to do so.
The "PAC" method of conflict resolution was taught and has to be taught to CHL students in this state. To those of you who don't know, that stands for the "parent, adult, or child" that is in each of us. When trying to peacefully resolve a dispute, one absolutely must get into an "Adult to Adult" mode in dealing with another person.
Think about it, how many leo's do you know of that go into the "Parent" mode when they put on a badge? AND, think about this, how many leo's go straight in the "Child" mode when challenged even an iota?
I have asked several leo's in this state and none have ever had any training in conflict resolution and none have ever even heard of the "PAC" method.
Couple that with steroid use, used by some leo's to better handle physical encounters, is it any wonder that some leo's are out of control? FYI, one of the symptoms of steriod abuse is very aggressive and violent behavior.
You're dead on with your observation on 'roid rage, anon.
Here' something else for you to consider 'Blain';
Law Enforcement
Oath of Honor
On my HONOR,
I will NEVER BETRAY my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the PUBLIC TRUST.
I will always have the courage
to hold MYSELF and others
ACCOUNTABLE for our actions.
I will always uphold the
CONSTITUTION,
the community and
the agency I serve,
SO HELP ME GOD.
- International Association of Chiefs of Police
Is it Lawful for an officer to uphold a law that is REPUGNANT to the CONSTITUTION? Regardless of what USURPING politicians or courts rule? Hardly...and I can prove my contention.
Hmmmmmm.....
If you or I cover for and provide protection for a criminal, what is our status under the law? What if we both do it simultaneously? Does that negate our responsibility and suddenly make our actions lawful? I mean after all we would be a group then.
Why is it different when a group of law enforcers do it for one of their criminals?
I will answer the question for me that you posed to David. NO, I don't think these agencies were designed to control and terrorize the citizenry. They have morphed into that because people noticed that there are seldom consequences for their bad actions for member of such agencies, example Lon Horiuchi. That attracts the wrong kind of people and some of the borderline characters succumb to the temptation of unfettered power, absent the probablility of consequence.
The above excepts the BATFE, they were designed just for such nefarious purposes, as evidenced by the fact that every task they are charged with is repugnant to the constitution. That agency's sole purpose is to trample the rights of citizens and kill or incarcerate any that do not acquiesce.
Blain said - "E. David Quammen – I’m not sure if you’re lumping me in with the anti-gun crowd or not but just to clarify I am not. I actually take some pride in my firearm collection and also my marksmanship abilities. Back to the point at hand, I don’t believe in any ultimate authority because it puts too much power in one person or groups hands."
The point at hand is government agents exercising incorrect and unconstitutional authority. To reiiterate my earlier post; "On my HONOR, I will NEVER BETRAY my badge, my integrity, my character, or the PUBLIC TRUST. (When the public is exercising a Constitutionally guaranteed Right and gets hindered, infringed and murdered is that a betrayal of the 'public trust"?). I will always have the courage to hold MYSELF and others, (that would include your fellow agents, would it not?), ACCOUNTABLE for our actions. (Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY? Please point it out as I nor many here have seen this supposed 'accountability'). I will always uphold the CONSTITUTION, (If it was clearly enumerated that the Right shall not be infringed, and L.E. has taken an oath swearing to uphold the Constitution. If a citizen is refusing to follow the perversions that have been applied by USURPING courts or politicians. Are you obliged to arrest that citizen, even though the citizen has NOT violated the TRUE law of the land - To Wit, the U.S. CONSTITUTION?), the community and the agency I serve, SO HELP ME GOD.
Would advise, (If you are concerned about TRUTH and upholding the TRUE law of the land. That you would read Federalist #78 and #84).
"The opinion of the Federalist has always been considered as of great authority. It is a complete commentary on our Constitution, and is appealed to by all parties in the questions to which that instrument has given birth..." - The U.S. Supreme Court, Cohens v. Virginia (1821)
In the Federalist, you will discover that We The People ARE the Legitimate and Ultimate Authority. As well as that any law passed by any local, state or federal branch, that is contrary to the U.S. Constitution is NULL and VOID - UNENFORCEABLE.
For PROOF of this, go here: http://gunshowonthenet.blogspot.com/2006/05/law-enforcement.html
And there is SO MUCH MORE Blain. I can PROVE where the government at ALL levels is currently running outside the BOUNDS of the Constitution. Once again, I ask you:
"Is it Lawful for an officer to uphold a law that is REPUGNANT to the CONSTITUTION? Regardless of what USURPING politicians or courts rule?" Do you enforce the TRUE law of the land, or what the perverse USURPERS have commanded you to UNCONSTITUTIONALLY ENFORCE?
Choose this day whom you shall serve, Blain.
Straightarrow said it pretty well, Blain--I can't improve on it. We're pretty tired of having to choose between exercising our rights or being destroyed by the state, and don't have a lot of patience for people suggesting the word of a "college educated" LEO automatically trumps one of We the People--and what began this was the accusation that we preferred the word of murderers.
If you want to know more about what makes us tick, I suggest you spend some time looking around this blog.
Someone called HRT and the FBI a group to terrorize US citizens or something to that nature. I'm seriously curious why the government would form such a group with such a purpose?
Do you believe the FBI is really a group comprised of entirely bad apples hand picked for this vile purpose? Or do you see them as a group of individuals acting out unconstitutional laws?
The government didn't form the FBI or HRT to "terrorize US citizens". They were formed just like virtually every other unconstitional or extra-constitutional agency. They were formed by Politicians as a knee-jerk reaction in order to be seen as "doing something" about a perceived problem.
The intentions were probably good, but, once a government agency has been formed, the primary purpose of every employee of said agency is to justify the agency's existence.
Case in point: BATFE. They don't get good enough arrest, prosecution and conviction records by only arresting true violent criminals (which are atually quite rare in our society), so they pad their numbers by dropping the hammer on otherwise law abiding citizens and businesses for technical violations of rules that they change at will, on a regular basis and with little or no notice to the public.
The FBI and HRT are a part of bureaucracy. The individuals may not be inherently evil, but the agency as a whole is, by nature, inefficient and abusive of power.
Most cops will not turn on their own regardless of how egregious the actions of their fellows. Even though most individual LEOs are good, honest and law abiding, your blind trust in the institution as a whole is misguided and naive.
Refuse to obey an unlawful order by a LEO (say, gun confiscations after Katrina) and see how receptive they are to your objections. And, after you sue them or bring criminal charges (if you live through the experience), watch how fast the wagons are circled and the wall of silence comes crashing down.
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