And no Fourteenth Amendment incorporation for you, either. [More]
So say the robed ones occupying the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit.
We keep trying to do this nicely.
Wednesday, February 11, 2009
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22 comments:
The way I read the 14A, the 2A sure as heck DOES apply to the states! The 14A says ALL rights of the U.S. citizen apply at state level!
These judges are LIARS!
jeez, another call to arms over there and yet, nothing. Talk about sound and fury signifying nothing.
Why do folks that feel Heller is useless bother to follow incorporation cases? Had the 2nd incorporated, wouldn't they say it was useless too?
So my advice is shut up and start shooting or let the judicial process work itself out. There are cases pending in the 9th (Nordyke v King) and the 7th (McDonald v Chicago and NRA v Chicago/Oak Park).
I imagine the 2nd Circuit case will be appealed to SCOTUS. If they accept and incorporate will people claim it is a hollow victory? If so, why wait, start shooting now.
Meanwhile, I'm going to go read the 2nd's opinion, find out what the arguments were, who filed amicus and try to figure out how they flubbed what is really a slam dunk.
The RKBA is not a government grant,
be it federal, state or local. The
Second Amendment merely codifies
a pre-existing right (for one must
be allowed the means to fulfill the
obligation of self-defense, and defense of one's neighbors.)
I do fear those who think otherwise
will be sorry, but they will not
be the only ones.
Unfortunately, the anti's are not students of history.
I see a lot of parallels between current times and the time when the Shays Rebellion took place. Not a good thing.
The defendant in this case represented himself, and he did it badly. Rumor has it that various pro-2A groups attempted to get him to either obtain adequate representation, or at least attempted to explain the technical aspects of what he needed to do in order to win the case, but he refused all help and all advice.
As a result, the 2nd Court of Appeals is now screwed until an incorporation case makes it's way to SCOTUS.
In a sense this is good, because if we can get incorporation granted in either California's Nordyke case, or in Chicago's handgun ban case, then we'll have a split federal court and that fast-tracks us back to SCOTUS. And we need to get back to SCOTUS before time or fate takes one of our five friends away from us.
Anyway, suffice to say, if you are involved in a legal case that involves the second amendment, you ABSOLUTELY need to contact one of the pro-gun activists groups in the country (NRA, GOA, JPFO, SFA, etc) and make sure you know exactly what you need to know in order to win the case. The courts WILL read the 2A out of existence on technicalities if you present a bad case. So don't have a fool for a client. Get competent representation if you have a 2A case. Otherwise, you'll just screw it up for the rest of us.
"jeez, another call to arms over there and yet, nothing. Talk about sound and fury signifying nothing....
So my advice is shut up and start shooting or let the judicial process work itself out"
Quote, please, to justify this on this post?
Sorry, 'over there' refers to the linked site.
The whole concept of selective incorporation is an insult on its face. It is a naked attempt to assume as much power as possible, by taking something unitary and dividing it up so as to ration it.
The Bill of Rights is a singular unit, employing consistent language and concepts, and was the condition on which the Constitution was fully ratified by all the states. It's either incorporated to the states in its entirety, or it's not at all--and given the written sentiments of the Founders that we have, the idea that the BoR would protect individuals only from the feds, but not from the states, seems to me just as unlikely as the idea that "the People" somehow means something completely different in the Second Amendment than it means everywhere else it appears in the BoR.
So was I.
What did WRSA say that justifies being characterized as "another" shoot or shut up "call to arms"?
My reaction is to continue living as I have. As I understand history, the Constitution was ratified by the existing states at the time. It could not be the law of the land otherwise, but it is, as of 1790-something A.D. "Incorporation" is BS. My BS detector has been pegged in the red zone for so long, I have to take the battery out to make sure it's not broken.
Of COURSE tyrants will move the goalposts as we are near scoring. It's the only way they can win. They prefer to convince us we've already lost. We MUST QUESTION AUTHORITY. ALWAYS.
OK, fine let's just trash the U. S. Constitution and at that very same point remove all federal government power. The states will be their own countries and will not be over lorded by the federal government because it will not longer be there.
That trade off by living under our state constitutions could be well worth it.
Ok, gonna make me work for it! LOL.
I found this in the original post a bit 'inflammatory'.
"The fuse is lit.
Alea iacta est."
Much of the comments but to highlight:
"Some of the frogs in the slowly heating pot just might "jump" prematurely and then turn up the heat intentionally, causing all the other frogs to feel the heat and jump before the "bipartisan" cooks can slowly cook them all.
Do you feel froggy?"
"And Heller is useless as a legal shield against any of it, in large part because it was meant to be useless - all full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing - and because it is still in the hands of lying robed lawyers."
"Ready."
Maybe I'm hyper-sensitized to it, but folks have designed flags already, fercrissakes.
Agent Smith says "Maybe I'm hyper-sensitized to it, but folks have designed flags already, fercrissakes."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag
I went off of this yesterday myself. A few places.
I no longer give a damn if we do it "nicely", just as long as we do it. Whatever it takes to get it done. Whatever!
Melancton Smith, what is in your name? The original Melancton Smith was a New Yorker who was a delegate to the first New York Provincial Congress. He later became a major in the Duchess County Rangers. In 1777 and 1778. On Feb. 11, 1777, he became one of three members of a Dutchess County, New York commission for "inquiring into, detecting and defeating all conspiracies . . . against the liberties of America;" he served for the next six months administering oaths of allegiance, arresting suspects, informing upon and examining Loyalists. While wielding this powerful civil and military authority, he was also serving as sheriff of Dutchess County. He extended his land holdings by purchasing some of the forfeited Loyalist estates. (wikipedia)
Nice work if you can get it.
When he was a member of the State ratification convention at Poughkeepsie in 1788, he initially made many of the same anti-federalist arguments as the Federal Farmer. But he sold out the antifederalists and voted for the Constitution, with amendments, which angered the anti-feds to no end.
Nice name you picked. He was a war profiteer and a sellout. Nice.
MS --
Some of the most serious people I know are experienced trial lawyers who have seen the futility of the court battle.
The point in tracking the incorporation issue to demonstrate to others the lunacy behind the claim that Heller was a famous victory.
And to the poor pathetic souls hoping that the 9th Circuit and the 5th Circuit will, at the last moment, intervene and incorporate the Second, two questions:
1) Why do you think that the anointed elites of the legal profession in California and Illinois will do anything to disrupt each state's punitive gun laws?
2) What makes you think that the SCOTUS responsible for the fabricated-from-whole-cloth exceptions in Heller (e.g., reasonable restrictions, dangerous weapons, sensitive areas. etc.) would not be similarly disgenuous if a split-Circuit 2A incorporation question came to them?
There's gonna be a fight, and what I don't understand is why those who have already decided to submit are so intent on denigrating those who will not submit.
Actually, I do understand -- the ones who will submit know who and what they really are, and it eats at them. Lashing out at their better is all they can do.
Pathetic.
Great...waitin' to see you in action.
For what it's worth, at this point the die is cast. Barring some unforeseen act of God, there will be no peaceful resolution of this problem. Patriots just can't seem to get their sh*t together. This is not an insult or some high and mighty thing. It's a fact. And no, I don't have the magic answer.
This "start shooting" talk is bullshit. Who the f**k are you kidding? When that day comes, and it probably will, we damn well better ante up. You big swinging d*cks most of all. Until then, there's a lot of fools out there playing games. Maybe more. If you understand what is happening, then you understand what is at stake and sure as hell aren't running your mouth off on the g*dd*mn internet.
Keyboard Revolutionaries.
Just typing like a big man.
Well my goodness, people too scared to speak up and warn the usurpers are denigrating those of us who do?
I think they will be too scared to do anything when the flag goes up, either.
Y'all keep hiding and telling yourselves you'll be there when the time is right. Uh huh! I believe that! I really do, I just don't think you'll ever find the right time.
Oh, and nobody ever said start shooting, what we have said that has caused you to piss your pants is that the time will come because the enemies of our freedom will have it no other way.
But y'all can argue that after you come out of hiding when it's all over.
Federal, thanks for the Wikipedia history lesson. I'm a Wikipedia Historian myself...reading books takes too much time!
I'll end with this funny Robin Williams bit, originally referring to Khaddafi.
"This is the line of death. You cross it, you die."
"Okay, you cross this line, you die."
"Okay, you cross this line, you die."
"This line, you die."
"Okay, you're knocking on my door, I'm not coming out. Naaaaah"
What is it Mike always says? No Fort Sumters? Lotta wisdom there, and oh-so-conveniently forgotten by the 'prags'...
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