Some of you have sent me the direct YouTube link, but I learned of this from Civil Liberties Examiner J.D. Tuccille, and believe you'd benefit from reading his article as well as watching the video. [More]
I entered my comments on his page, but will add this:
Deputy Paul Schene, you are one of the most disgusting, brutal, thuggish and cowardly "Only Ones" I have ever had occasion to comment on, and I've commented on some pretty disgusting, brutal, thuggish and cowardly ones. If you don't like that, look me up.
Saturday, February 28, 2009
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47 comments:
sadistic bastard.....if that was my daughter he wouldnt have to worry about a little pissy criminal charge
WTF! What happened to being held to a higher standard, being an example and everything. Instead, this guy seems to hold to the lowest standard he can.
Comment deleted.
No anonymous postings of real people's addresses. Not on a site I work hard at every day and put my real name on.
You want to do that, put it on your own site. And make damn sure you have the right person.
She kicked her shoe in a childish way of saying screw you. For this piece of shit to go off on a little girl like that shows a very sick mind.
Understand, this is the kind of people the government wants working for them. The slime balls who are hard core punks and thugs are the ones that move up in the ranks. The government wants JBT to enforce laws and slap down the citizens into submission so the criminals can feed off the hard work of the citizen body.
Yes, this punk being a piece of shit is pretty much par for the course. And the fact that the other pig with him didn't knock his teeth out proves that its par for the course. I wouldn't have let that punk attack that kid. I would have kicked his ass to protect her if I was the other guy in the video. But thats not in the cards because thats what the controllers of government want punk cowards.
"No anonymous postings of real people's addresses. Not on a site I work hard at every day and put my real name on."
Goddamned right, David. Good for you.
I see he was put on "paid administrative leave". Where I come from, we call that a vacation. No wonder so many of them like slapping people around; all you have to do is beat up a teenager and you get some paid time off for it.
The way I was raised if I had stolen my parents car (what? you mean she is not little innocent angel?) then talk trash to the cops and acted in a severly disrespectful manner the beating my father administered would have made that video look like childs play.
Wow, your dad must have been a monster. I'm sincerely sorry you had to grow up in that environment.
My father spanked me one time when I was 5 for sassing my mother. He is one of the kindest men I have ever known. But he raised me to respect people. Your comment Mr. Dooley illustrates my point perfectly. You made your judgement on my father and my enviroment without knowing the full context of my upbringing. You literally have no idea what you are talking about. In my case and with the deputy.
You're the one who said your father had the potential to beat his own child in a way that "would have made that video look like child's play."
Such a propensity (A) is monstrous, and (B) creates a very uncomfortable environment for other human beings.
Indeed, I suspect the reality is that your father would not in fact have beaten you to such a degree. And if you "respect people," as you claim, you wouldn't have attributed such a trait to him in the first place.
As for my "literally" having no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to the deputy, what are you talking about? I've written nothing about the deputy. Talk about not knowing the full context...
The full context is the subject matter of this thread, that is the story of the deputy. I assumed who agreed with the previous commenters who were critical of the deputy's actions.
The point though is that if parents do not teach thier children to refrain from stealing and act respectful to those in positions of authority they will eventually get thier rear ends handed to them. It might be by a LEO or some joe on the street but it will happen. The young woman in the video now understands that there are consequences to stealing cars and talking crap to a LEO.
and those consequences are for a court to administer not the deputy. His actions were unprofessional and criminal and he deserves to have the full weight of the law land on his worthless ass.
What part of NC are in Kahr? I live in Winston Salem.
Were it my child he would never have to worry about being punished by the law.
There was a time when I would have trusted the law to do its job. Now, for good or ill, I do not. Doesn't mean I accept their non-performance as the last word.
Looked like a very mild, feeble flip of the ankle to me. Of course it would have been better to take off the shoe and HAND it to him. Maybe he didn't ask politely, as I'm sure policy suggests. Unless it hit him square in the face and broke his nose in a freak accident, there's NO excuse for what he did. None. NONE. He could have broken the girl's neck in an equally freaky "accident." People do die from one punch sometimes.
I have a granddaughter about that age. Deputy God -- excuse me, I mean Dog -- no, I mean God -- and I would have already met. The System does not seem to be reining in its mavericks. Kinda like implied permission, you know? The sheriff better do something quick, and the city, while we're all hoping things stay mostly reasonable. Both sides have to want it for it to happen.
Bunch of reckless liberal-media-parroting moonbats. Not to mention amoral race-card-playing wusses
Captain Janitorial--what are you talking about?
I am talking about the liberal press alway trying to tear the country down. Every time they talk about guns they try to put a negative slant on it. Tired of it.
I have read through the comments and citizens have not offered constructive theroies of leadership. For this I am disappointed.
Having settled on quality and acceptance as the two princibal criteria for effective decisons the Deputy now needs to develop a normative decision model. We need to incorporate questions to protect quality and acceptance by eliminating decison processes that would be wrong or inappropriate. Generally, these question concern the problem intself, the amount of pertinent information posessed by the leader and followers, and various situational factors.
Adam Cranston:
What?
Mr. Codrea,
I am much appreciative of your strong leadership for gun rights. I think though that we need to offer the deputy a constructive feedback loop to assist him in his leadership role. I think that we can be helpful in this process by using validated leadership theories. The prior posts do not seem designed to offer solutions that the deputy may implement to affect better leadership solutions.
That's what I thought you said.
If it were my daughter, I would indeed give him a constructive feedback loop to discourage future such behaviors. I have just the tree to tie it to.
Barring that, how about ten years or so of hard time, and publicize the hell out of it so other JBTs who think it's SOP to brutalize citizens get the message...?
If one of us had done that to him, we'd be up on attempted murder charges.
Mr. Codrea, I think it is incumbent upon us to properly analyse the situation and use the appropriate data sets to accomplish our goals of reforming the existing structural limitations vis a vis insuring proper understanding of the rights and responsibilities of all parties involved. We must strive to divorce our emotional reactions and apply a strict intellectual framework for addressing these issues. I will attempt to address your points.
“I have just the tree to tie it(sic) to.” I must assume that you are describing tying the deputy to a tree and administering some type of corporal punishment. We may properly examine this situation using the Situational Leadership® Model. A leader may give general guidelines or goals to a highly compentent and motivated follower but spend time coaching, directing, and training a unskilled and unmotivated follower. We would use the Situational Leadership® matrix in refererence follower readiness.
“[H]ow about ten years of hard time, and publicize ... it...” Under the proper anaylis courts would hold this use of physical force as a misdemeanor assault and therefore implicate a punishment of less than one year in a county jail with typical sentence being probation and a small fine. We then may look at leader behaviors under the Situational Leadership® model. This model has evolved overtime. There are task behaviors defined as extent to which leader spells out the respondibilities of an individual or group. Hand relationship behaviors, or how much the leader engages in two-way communication. We must listen, encourage, facilitate, clarify and explain why the task is important, and give support.
“... [W]e’d be up on attempted murder charges.” In my review and analysis of court cases around various jurisdictions the level of physical force used would have only implicated a misdemeanor assault on a government official, with an appropriate sentence of less than one year in jail with a small fine. At this point we may want to return to the normative decision model. This would be an appropriate use of Vroom and Yetton’s tree. leadership decision.
I think what I'm saying is, if some sonofabitch thug beats the hell out of one of my children, ever, I will do what I can to kill him.
The only Vroom would be the sound my car made after I ran over him.
Clear?
But I get that I'm being played. Good one.
Mr. Cranston, what the heck are you talking about? I really despise people who use all that flowery language, because they usually aren't trying to make a point; they're trying to obfuscate the point. All you're doing is spouting bureaucratic psychobabble. And no, it doesn't mean I'm not smart. I can detect bull$!*t when I see it.
Situational leadership? How about some plain old morality?
BTW, David's "feedback loop" is a hangman's noose. Now, who's not so bright?
Mr. Crotalus et al.,
We must think about a wider audience than the relativley small auidence that is our like minded compatriots. I realize that the approach I take is different than what you may be used to, but to you really think that any one who has not considered the deeper morality of second amendment issues will be persuaded by talk of running over law enforcement personnel. It would behoove us to think deeply on how to advance our goal of spreading liberty rather than pretending we are masked avengers wreaking havoc on JBT's.
No pretending and no mask.
Tell me something--is there nothing that would prompt you to kill?
Nothing at all?
My goal may not be what you think it is.
And as far as your persuasive powers, I'm not sure they're working. So far, I've been amused, yes, but persuaded, hardly.
I would kill someone who threatens lethal violence against me or my loved ones. But we do not have that in this case. I believe that law enforcement orginazations can be reformed with properly implemented leadership principles.
"My goal may not be what you think it is." I apoligize if I am incorrect but I assumed you wanted to sway the general public into a pro 2nd amendment attitude.
Mr. Codrea,
I am not trying to persuade you that you are wrong. I am trying to persuade you that there may be a more effective means of accomplishing the goal of expanding 2nd amdendment rights. Most people think very little about deeper issues of liberty. They are usually content to worry about work, their family and friends. I think we will be more effective communicators of our values if we don't look upon every act of offical malfeasence as a reason to start talking about killing people.
In this specific instant, I would kill the sonofabitch for doing that to one of mine. Reach a wider audience my ass! His funeral would do that.
The time for Psych 101 and Communications 101 was a long time ago. Now is the time to speak up.
But only if you have something to say. Which apparently The Shadow doesn't, he is just trying to cloud minds with verbiage. Oh wait, he isn't Lamont Cranston. Too damn bad he doesn't know anything.
That crap he has been spewing reads like a doctoral thesis, which means it is unintelligible on purpose to hide the fact that the doctoral candidate has nothing new to add to the field of study ( a requirement for a legitimate doctorate), and is granted a pass by the committee because they are loath to admit that they couldn't squeeze any value out of it, either.
My goal here at WoG is to radicalize.
Look, I have work to do--I rarely engage this much in comments. You obviously think you're qualified to teach. I'm seeing someone with much to learn.
I'll stand by the body of my work at being effective on 2A matters. You stand by yours.
Mr. Codrea,
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my posts. I am qualified to teach. If I have been able to reach some readers here who want to try to actually expand the sphere of 2nd amendment rights rather than engage in juvinile revenge fantasy's then I will count myself a successful.
Sorry SA Adam has a point. Leadership is important. Hang this POS "only one" and his boss... Well at least give his boss a good drubbing.
Mr. Cranston, you can spout all of the giberish you wish. A quick Google Search in the PRNJ shows that hitting a cop gets you FELONY Aggravated Assault, and that was for just one punch:
http://tinyurl.com/c9jyxb
What do you think you would get if you did to a cop what that SOB did to that poor little girl?
DP
I'm reminded of a fight in the lobby of a hockey rink in Massachusetts. One man punched another MAN whose head happened to be on the concrete floor at the time (just as the deputy hit the teenaged GIRL's head). The MAN died.
This doesn't look like "simple assault" to me.
Laws vary from state to state but in the jurisdiction that I live in that would be a misdemeanor. What changes the level of the crime is the effect on the victim folks. It simply does not matter what the assault LOOKS like. It could look like the most viscous beating in the world but if you come out of it with nothing but a black eye it will never be a felony.
I worked a case once were a fellow sucker punched another guy causing the victim to fall on some steps causing serious brain injury. That assault was prosecuted as a felony.
I assume by PRNJ you are talking about New Jersey. The only state with more pro statist screwed up laws than NJ is NY. I would not use them as a representitive of other states.
If the folks here and in the wider world don't think this is a leadership issue then the problem will not get fixed. I went back a reread my orginial post's and yes they do sound like adacemicese but that is my background. I am attempting to offer something a little more sophisticated than the entireely fanatstical notion that anyone is going to murder a government official to what amount to a miscdemeanor assault on a female.
You used "vis a vis". You must have read Dave Barry's 'How to Win Arguments'.
http://www.digitalroom.net/index2.html
I absolutely love the last line of that piece.
Whoops. wrong link. Try this one.
http://www.searchlores.org/davidbarry.htm
That's the whole problem, Adam. The cops do this and get away with murder, sometimes literally. We, on the other hand would never see the light of day again if we did it back. Where is right and wrong here? Where is justice? Instead, we get lawyerese, academicese, and managerspeak. We've had justice stolen from us. It's no wonder that we entertain thoughts of revenge. And "murdering" a gov't official isn't that farfetched. We did it to the King's officers in the War for Independence, and while it cost a lot of blood on both sides, it was something that finally worked. All our pleading up until then was nothing. It wasn't until we told Gen. Gage that we would NOT give up our guns, and backed it up by using those guns, that we turned the tide of gov't oppression.
Crotalus, Their is no doubt that there are bad cops. Kathryn Johnson's case being a prime example of that. In my opinion the sentences that those officers recieved was not justice. With that being said however look around your community, do you consider your local PD and SD evil oppressors? The egregious cases you are probably thinking about can in my opinion be traced back to extremley poor leadership from the top going down.
Leadership is a serious adademic study. I believe it offers us a solution that does not involve wholesale killing. The American Revolution did not happen in a vacume. The was many long years in which the intellectual foundation was paved for it to be successful. And by successful I do not mean the military defeat of His Majesty's army. I mean the fact that it gave birth to a free nation. Without that intellectual foundation of respect for the individual, a successful military camphaign would have probaly ended in some sort of despotic tryanny. See for instance the French revolution.
Now, THERE we agree. We did seek justice and fair treatment from Parliament for many years, and much intellectual thought went into the process by our leaders Their goal was limited government, and as much freedom for the individual as can be afforded without falling into anarchy. That's why our Revolution is the only one in history (that I know of, anyway) that gave a people greater freedom. The rest always devolved into ever greater tyranny.
I live in an unincorporated county area, so I only have the SD with which to concern myself. I have not seen oppression from my local sheriffs. But one cannot ignore the "Only Ones" file that David has built, nor can one ignore the illegal (and evil) actions of the police in New Orleans aftr Katrina. Not only that, but Chief Riley, who replaced Chief Compass, said that they would confiscate guns again, even though Louisiana passed a law that forbids it. Does not that make the police evil oppressors?
Not all police are evil oppressors, but there are some. Chief Riley, and the Seattle Police leaders are prime examples, as well as the thug who pounded on this girl like an enraged chimpanzee. They need to be ousted. They need to be brought up on charges, and I mean serious charges. As I said, bring back morality and justice for all. Otherwise, we will continue to have "Only Ones" who get away with the worst travesties of justice, and even murder. One day, they will cross a line, and then it will be war. A gruesome thing to think, but I fear it is inevitable.
Adam, I criticized your spelling on another blog. Forgive me? I know how to spell, but it doesn't always make it through the keyboard. Sometimes I'm mighty stumble-fingered.
It is not a leadership problem alone. One can only be led where he is willing to go. All the decision making modalities in the world will not create in the student morality or ethics.
Whereas morality and ethics can most certainly make all the leadership studies and decision making modality study superfluous.
As for 'fantastical visions of revenge", they aren't that fantastical nor especially about revenge. Why don't we call it MAD? You know Mutually Assured Destruction. In a war of attrition we are bound to win. More importantly, if we convince them of its probability no revenge, no attrition or violent actions would be necessary.
What you fail to recognize in all your assumed academic erudition is that the dynamic has progressed beyond an academic exercise in education. You might as well be talking about the desirability of tits on a jeep.
What is needed is a practical lesson in serious consequences. At this point in time most of us are doing what we can to get them to police their own. However, their immunity from consequences means that so far our efforts are falling on deaf ears. We are not talking about honorable men who made mistakes. We are talking about dishonorable men who know exactly what they are doing and enjoy it. If LE won't rid themselves of these types at all levels we have only two choices. If you are even half as smart as you think you are you know what those choices be. And if you have any loyalty to liberty you know that one of them is totally unacceptable.
Crotalus, I think spell check has ruined me I have gotten so used to it automatically correcting my punctuation that I have gotten lazy and become a poor speller.
A few points, yes a study of leadership presumes leaders having the correct moral compass to choose the right course of action. Immoral leaders will lead down the wrong path or ignore things that need to be corrected. My belief though is that most people want to do the right thing. Yes Mr. Codrea's file of official abuses serves as a check on this but remember there are probably over a million law enforcement officers in this country when you add up federal, state, and local numbers. Statistics wise does it make sense to paint with such a broad brush?
I think though that you all may be to quick to discount leadership studies and how they can help. I want to offer a personal ancedote to help explain were I am coming from in this discussion. I am now in a graduate program and part of that includes a leadership studies component, but I used to be a city police officer. During my time wearing the badge we had two incidents of bad cops. In one incident the cop was a male who would make legitimate arrest of female suspects and then sexually abuse them. This had gone on for about a year when one of his victims came to the department to make a complaint. As soon as she told her story to the officer he took her to the chief and she told the story to him. This victim was not a sympathetic complaintant. She had multiple felony warrants from another state and had resisted arrest after stealing a car and engaging us in a chase. BUT the chief took her story seriously and called in state investigators. They were able to validate her story with phyiscal evidence and that officer was arrested and charged with the appropriate crimes. Then about a year later the chief was notified by a concerned citizen that another officer was using her position to try to intimidate business's into ignoring her financial misdeeds. The chief took the appropriate action and she was dismissed that same day he was notified. None of this was publicized just handled with professional leadership. It is my impression that this is the rule rather than the exception. That is why I object to the talk of violence that I hear.
I think a large part of it may come from people just not knowing law enforcement officers personally. That is why I asked you to consider your own communities. Most of us do not live in New Orleans (a department that actually deserves to be gutted and completely rebuilt)or certain parts of Chicago. I am not asking anybody to ignore official malfeasance but to take a more analytical approach to the situation. Instead of wanting to burn the house down every time we see a roach maybe something a little more sensible.
Ok, Adam, first off, I know more than one LEO personally. Two of them real well, my son and my brother. They hold my opinion of bad officers.
Secondly, your definition of bad officers is too narrow. Not only is the active miscreant a bad officer, but so are all those who do not arrest them, who cover for them, or who turn a blind eye.
If, as you say, you were a LEO, you know this already.
When officers of the law start being treated as citizen instead of ubermenschen, by their own brothers in blue and their administrations and their police unions, then we have something to talk about.
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