What?You didn't think you were going to get something for nothing, did you? [More]
[Via Larry Rankin]
UPDATE: See comments by "Maxomai" and the discussion that follows about this only applying to dealers. An alternative explanation appears here.
Saturday, August 01, 2009
Confiscation for Clunkers
What?You didn't think you were going to get something for nothing, did you? [More]
[Via Larry Rankin]
UPDATE: See comments by "Maxomai" and the discussion that follows about this only applying to dealers. An alternative explanation appears here.
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18 comments:
You are going to mention that this warning only shows up on the screens of authorized dealers that are participating in the program, and that the consumer who takes advantage of this program isn't affected...
...right?
"they came for the car dealers, but i was not one. so i said nothing."
right?
The point being, taking advantage of this program will NOT make your computer government property.
Even if this were a slippery slope, it might make ONE computer at a car dealer into government property.
For a little while.
This isn't even remotely close to being a slippery slope.
It does not matter if it only affects one computer in the whole of the United States; it is intrusion in the private affairs of the American people by the government.
One has to wonder what will happen when you use your personal computer to log into their government mandated single payer health insurance system.
Give them an inch and they will take 10,000 miles.
David, you should put a notice on The War on Guns that notifies the feds that anytime they visit, their computer becomes your personal property. After all, if they can do it, so can you.
maxomai, I can't figure if you're as crazy as the commie suckasses in Con-gress, who read the 2A and see no right to own a gun, or the ones who read the Constitution and see a right to seize private property, like car companies,banks etc. It says clear as crystal, "your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government". WTF do you need, a house to fall on you? You do sound like that one moron in Congress, who, after the Japanese murdered thousands at Pearl Harbour, voted not to go to war.
Sean:
maxomai, I can't figure if you're as crazy as the commie suckasses in Con-gress, who read the 2A and see no right to own a gun, or the ones who read the Constitution and see a right to seize private property, like car companies,banks etc. It says clear as crystal, "your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government".
Tell you what: you find me a single case of the government seizing someone's computer for using that site, and I'll help you and everyone else create the biggest fecal hurricane the blogosphere has ever seen about it. Just let me know. My email is in my profile.
You do sound like that one moron in Congress, who, after the Japanese murdered thousands at Pearl Harbour, voted not to go to war.
You're speaking, of course, of Congresswoman Rankin (R-MO)? Not that I see what her vote has to do with an alleged illegal expansion of federal power. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Don't think you still get it. They can do the cookie/trojan/virus thing IF they want to, and IF it suits their needs, for whatever purpose. They don't give a hoot in hell about SEIZING anything, but they do want to control, everything possible. Remember last late summer, eary fall, and the Russians decided they wanted to bully Georgia/Azerberjan? They unleashed a shit storm of barbs to the net that effectively shut out the civilians and military web traffic in their target area. Did it with cookies. The little blurb on the Cash for Clunkers is just the way they make it all nice and legal, in their eyes at least. Me no cooperate? Computer no work, not for me at least. My property now works for them, I still retain it, but it may as well be a fence post, regarding commo. Don't think they can't do it, or haven't considered it. Dell had to fix my computer last year after a tidal wave of viruses and trojans nearly destroyed it. On the phone, from a remote location, Dell was on the phone with me for three hours, and on my computer as well, in step by step instructions. Guy told me they could step in any time, and do whatever they wanted, as long as the computer was powered. Why couldn't the feds? They've already shown themselves to be thugs and thieves. If I didn't power it, they could send a cop around to make me comply. I would be paying the electric bill for the govt. to use my property. Why do you refuse to see what's in front of you? That's what I meant by the Rankin reference. If you still disagree, forget about it. It's not worth any more discussion, if you don't see the point.
Don't think you still get it. They can do the cookie/trojan/virus thing IF they want to, and IF it suits their needs, for whatever purpose. They don't give a hoot in hell about SEIZING anything, but they do want to control, everything possible. Remember last late summer, eary fall, and the Russians decided they wanted to bully Georgia/Azerberjan? They unleashed a shit storm of barbs to the net that effectively shut out the civilians and military web traffic in their target area. Did it with cookies. The little blurb on the Cash for Clunkers is just the way they make it all nice and legal, in their eyes at least. Me no cooperate? Computer no work, not for me at least.
We're talking about a dealership's computer here. You do realize that if they wanted to, they could just shut down the whole Internet at the top-level router level, and all phone networks, right? They don't need to have possession or control of your computer, legally or otherwise.
So, what's their interest in seizing control a computer at a car dealership?
Dell had to fix my computer last year after a tidal wave of viruses and trojans nearly destroyed it. On the phone, from a remote location, Dell was on the phone with me for three hours, and on my computer as well, in step by step instructions. Guy told me they could step in any time, and do whatever they wanted, as long as the computer was powered. Why couldn't the feds?
I can understand how that might be disconcerting. That's why I don't run Windows. Nonetheless, the question remains as to why they would want to somehow expand this to take control of the car dealer's computer against the wishes of the car dealer. They don't need the hardware itself (either ownership or control), they can buy your personal and credit history just like any marketing company under the PATRIOT act, and they already know who is taking advantage of the cash-for-clunkers program (the IRS would keep track of that, for obvious reasons). If the FBI or BATF wanted your tax records, they could get them with a court order, or just take them and justify it to a secret court afterward.
All of this was true under the Bush administration.
This is why I believe that this is much ado about nothing.
Hey Maxomai, smarten up. If they can do it to the dealers on such slim pretext there is nothing to keep them from doing to you on other slim pretexts, say for instance, an email to your congressman or senator?
Are you an idiot, or just selfishly myopic?
Is it ok with you when someone else is abused, but you experience no immediate consequence?
Perhaps you should read what Reverend Neimoller had to say when asked how Germany had sunk to the depths of depravity it did in the '30' and 40's.
Again: where is the abuse here? The car dealers consent to make their computer part of the Federal network by logging in. Even if I find the idea abhorrent, do you have any evidence whatsoever that the Feds are abusing this privilege?
If the Feds try to do the same thing to anyone who contact their elected representatives via email, then I'll lead the charge against it. Again, feel free to inform me at any time. My email is in my profile.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen, though.
Maxomai--just got back in from being out all day.
No, I did not have that information when I posted this and was relying on the video. And yes, I know as well as anyone that "Authorized Journalists" often get it wrong.
That said, I do agree with other commentators that the government presuming to make ANYONE's computer its property is wrong.
And that said, upon checking your claim, I can't verify it. I saw a Kos post speculating Beck has been punked, but have seen nothing to validate that speculation--other than the writer saying he could not now find anything on the Cars.gov site. Repeated attempts to access it produce time outs.
But of course I'm interested in presenting the complete truth, and if what you say is true, I have no objection to including that qualifier. Please share what you know, along with a link to your source.
I found a site with the dealer explanation and posted it as an update, above.
Mr. Codrea,
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Max.
Max, what system do you use, if not windows?
Crotalus,
I've run Linux for ten years; I also run Mac OSX from time to time. I won't claim that Linux is the easiest or most convenient operating system to use, but once one learns to use it, it allows one almost complete control of everything from the hardware up. (Of course, the hardware can be treacherous, too.)
As a side note, my wife just pointed out to me that my email isn't in fact visible in my profile. I've fixed this. I apologize for any confusion that I might have caused by this omission.
(My apologies to Mr Codrea for hijacking this thread.)
They don't have to seize anything under this program, but it does seem to bring to mind an old saying about the nose of a camel.
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