No we don't.
Look, I don't know the truth of this Obama birth certificate matter.
On the one hand, you have the smartasses sneering "tinfoil hats." Sorry, but that's not an argument and it doesn't serve well the cause of those who offer it.
On the other hand, you have people with all sorts of versions, some appearing at least plausible, others fantastic. Sorry, but that's not proof.
It seems the simplest thing would be to just produce incontrovertible evidence for expert examination by all sides. And no, what we've seen so far is not.
This avoidance does nothing to increase confidence in government or diminish distrust. All it does is widen the divide and fuel the conspiracy theories even more--from both sides, including the one that of course BO can prove it, but by not doing so he can draw out making his political enemies look like fools.
It seems a simple enough question to deserve a straight answer for.
Monday, December 08, 2008
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31 comments:
What is left for those whose petitions have fallen on deaf ears within the framework of our so-called republic?
A call to arms and force the issue? or do we just bend over and accept our raping like good little slaves...
No straight answer for only one reason.
The only reason Obama won't produce a birth certificate showing he was born in the U.S. — is because he can't. Otherwise, he would.
Communism has a huge problem on its hands — millions of American gun owners, and plenty of historical documents that state plainly that we have a RIGHT to have them.
Really stinking hard to get around as it requires a total rewrite of history.
Anonymous has a point.
What DO we do with a possibly unqualified man preparing to be elected and sworn in?
the prags have said "civil disobedience" was the answer.
Perhaps it IS, in an Atlas Shrugging kind of way. We DO hold the power to make this country great, or to tear it down in days. All we've ever had to do was STOP.
I've said many times that gun owners should just go on strike for a while, but they can't even bother to take off one day, unlike coal miner unions
word verification "invid" (google it)
The system is set up to allow The People to have a way of making government work for them. Yet another case in point that we don't have that system any longer.
Here's where I see this becoming a very large problem. Wait until Oboma and company start up the draft again. There will be huge protest of young people demanding to see the proof he's legally about to be president. This problem is going to come back over and over and be a little louder each time. At that point people will know he's now legal to serve and there will have a very large problem.
I would like to see one who advocates civil disobedience document where they have already engaged in it.
I know that I was not alone in defying CA's "assault weapon" registration ban, but not only is the law still in place, had I been arrested I would now be a prohibited person, and from the comments I've seen, most would say I'd have gotten what was coming to me, made them all look bad, and if I didn't like a law should have worked within the system to change it.
Ditto, the same ones who tell us they carry "wherever it's legal" have no words of comfort for me about the times I've done so without permission--once on the advice of a cop investigating an employment-related death threat against me and once when I persuaded a gang that my wife, infant child and I were not ideal targets.
I got a laff from Snopes - they described the whole Obama Certificate of Live Birth issue as an urban myth.
For their proof they linked to an alleged birth certificate with the certificate number redacted. At the bottom of the form itself it states that any changes render the certificate invalid.
Guess I'll have to take Snopes "facts" with a pound of salt in the future.
Why would Obama disclose his certificate to a commie rag like The Daily Kos but not simply disclose the certificate in the court proceedings and move for summary judgment?
No doubt the whole thing stinks. And the implications are that if Obama's proven later to be an invalid candidate that every action taken by him is rendered moot. And that includes any criminal action prosecuted by the DOJ or any U.S. Attorney.
Seems that his supporters would be demanding disclosure. There's the old law of unintended consequences...
Anyone with "connections" can have an official certificate drawn up by someone who works in the appropriate agency, and it will be real, and legal, even if not honest. Therefore I think the whole thing, while amusing, is kinda pointless. If he needs proof, he will have proof.
What I want to know is if the prags have ever engaged a politician who completely OPPOSED them. Like one who called for gun confiscation, or national IDs, or warrantless wiretaps, or anything. Not someone who was more-or-less or sorta on their side, someone who would spit in their face if it wouldn't be bad PR.
I have. It's why I'm not a "voter," I'm a "doer." I'll vote when it's useful, but when I get to pick Infringer A or Infringer B, I know better than to participate. The only LOGICAL thing to do is to not cooperate. These people are NOT reasonable and so can NOT be reasoned WITH. You need to ignore them. You need to defy them.
What I'd like to see isn't a "peaceful protest" that means jack. I want to see gun owners begin making, "importing" and trading firearms that are completely illegal under current law. THAT will get through to them. It will be perfectly peaceful and we will be perfectly within our rights, but I'm willing to bet every red cent I have that they will respond with OVERWHELMING force.
And I know what I'll do when tyrants come to my door meaning to do me harm. Do you?
John Higgins
III
HAD you been arrested you could have been invited into the game of the court system and had standing to fight it.
I still say money is a good avenue to hurt them. I completely understand that we're not using real money, but that makes no difference as it's a medium of exchange. Everyone claims that the election was due to economic issues, so what better avenue then to use those against him?
He has NO chance of being seen as turning the economy around if people refuse to work because he won't show a damn piece of paper. Why the hell SHOULD they.
We have a contract with the government clearly spelling out terms, and he and anyone NOT living up to those have voided that contract. Period. AS I pointed out in the link above the union there refused to work as a protest over something as idiotic as their "union rights"
America HAS a union, or it IS a union and not striking and standing up for our rights is asking for whatever goons with clubs they want to send out. They have no authority to do it, but they WILL, as they HAVE.
This birth certificate business is seen as even loonier than gun rights in the media and court of public opinion (aka dumbed down kool-aid drinking masses)
YES, a strike would hurt them (masses) more, but it would be using THEIR tactics(unions, largely lean left and strike to gain their demands), THEIR arguments (civil disobedience and resistance to over reaching government violations of rights), and THEIR media (those that heralded the arrive of a new savior) against them. Given the circumstances of the day is there a better method?
Striking won't work.
People need to eat, firstly, and many people on our side live paycheck-to-paycheck. Right off the bat, they can't help us.
Secondly you have lots of people who just don't feel that powerfully about it. They will refuse to inconvenience themselves. They're out.
Then you have the fact that there are plenty of people on the OTHER side who will love the job openings afforded them by our refusal to show up to work. They aren't going to strike, they think he's The Lightworker. They'll replace us as much as they can. Plus you have all the cheap immigrant labor.
Believe me, there are not enough strikebreakers to replace us, but there are more than enough to starve us into submission. Good idea, but it's not going to work.
John Higgins
III
HAD you been arrested you could have been invited into the game of the court system and had standing to fight it.
No, in fact I could not have at that time. The position of the courts, including State Supreme Court and the Ninth Circuit, was that there is no individual RKBA.
And guess who argued against individual standing in a CA "assault weapons" case?
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081208/D94UFKP81.html
use
his OWN WORDS against him
John H., Anon;
"What DO we do with a possibly unqualified man preparing to be elected and sworn in?"
Remove him from office, by force if necessary and jail him and all complicit with him for attempting a coup. (Including a whole bunch of "conservatives.")
You don't "uphold the Constitution" by allowing it to be disregarded.
The Founding Fathers did not believe in the "will of the people." They believed in the will of the people tempered by the law. There is a great distinction between the two.
"You don't 'uphold the Constitution' by allowing it to be disregarded."
That means EVERY president since at least Lincoln should have been removed from office and arrested. But, of course, Lincoln did get justice.
Yes, but Boothe paid dearly for it, and I'm not willing to pay that cost until it is forced upon me. Were that I was as brave as JWB, but alas I am not.
As an aside, a friend of mine is a relative of Boothe's. I believe some sort of niece.
Also, you have to remember that the Bill of Rights does NOT constrain government. That makes no sense. The government constrains government? Contradiction in terms.
The Bill of Rights is and will forever be no more than a guideline for the PEOPLE. It is a list of the things that we must demand at all costs from the government, because they will not be idly given to us. It IS the "line in the sand" envisioned by the Founders. When we are not receiving those things listed IN FULL, in the pure interpretation of the text given to us by the authors of said text, we are within our rights entirely to disband the government by any and all means.
THAT is the purpose of the Bill of Rights.
OK since we "have our orders"
Remove him from office, by force if necessary and jail him and all complicit with him for attempting a coup. (Including a whole bunch of "conservatives.")
what's stopping you? Clearly with all the support for the court case you'll have millions of people to help you actually, you know, PULL IT OFF, and with the courts not even taking it you'll have somewhere to try him(them)
Sorry, while it is probably the correct thing to do, it sounds as if those two "white supremacists" had dreamed it up. The idiotic population would consider it even more insane then that and you'd have no backing, even among people who agreed with you. They can't even be troubled to take time off work. The pragpounding faction would shoot you themselves to show how American they are to win over the public in a stunt like that.
Anyone with "connections" can have an official certificate drawn up by someone who works in the appropriate agency, and it will be real, and legal, even if not honest. Therefore I think the whole thing, while amusing, is kinda pointless. If he needs proof, he will have proof.
Exactly this. The people pursuing this birth certificate nonsense are under the erroneous impression that they are working within a fair system. It is a waste of effort.
John H. said:
What I'd like to see isn't a "peaceful protest" that means jack. I want to see gun owners begin making, "importing" and trading firearms that are completely illegal under current law
Thank you for expressing publicly what I am sure many of us are already thinking: When firearms that we have legally owned can be made illegal and - by obvious extension - make us criminals, then it is natural to discard any remaining vestige of respect for law and think to oneself, "Fugit, why not just go the whole hog?".
How true that old expression is now, eh?
"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"
Now WE, who have previously been responsible, law-abiding, are soon to be outlaws How well that sits with each and every one of us and how each individual handles that status is between him and his Creator.
There will understandably be reticence and hesitation. We have jobs, families, responsibilities. For now.
But it is fair to say that with some ominous black economic clouds hanging over us, there may come a time - as it already has for many Americans - when, by choice or circumstances, we are liberated from the distractions, comforts and financial handcuffs that maybe dampen dissenting firebrand tendencies.
As the song goes, "Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left To Lose".
And that my friends, is why we are reading about US military being stationed for deployment on US soil
TPTB know that the natives are getting restless and are getting their chess pieces in place...
I would add to John's suggestions with the following steps:
- Procure and hoard military caliber ammo for any weapons you own now, may possible own or that may have tangible trading value in the future
- Ditto parts and receivers (already happening)
- Stock up on receiver blanks and 80% finished parts. These usually require no FFLs to buy
- Stock up on "everything but the receiver" parts kits, again even for weapons you do not own.
- This man went to jail for 4 years for exercising his inalienable rights.
Read his book (and others like it) and stock up on raw materials and parts.
- Buy blueprints and plans
- Invest in a drill press
- if you can afford it invest in a CNC mill or build your own
Excellent ideas.
Also remember that there are some parts of the Union where even handguns are banned. And there are some people who would really, really like handguns there with or without the Master's permission, but don't want to go through very shady and possibly violent channels to acquire them.
I just want to bring your attention to those poor, huddled masses yearning to be free. I'm not suggesting anything.
Not yet. Not here.
Understood John. The beauty of the things I list above, are that they are all legal (except where expressly forbidden e.g. WA state it is forbidden to possess even a part of a SMG, so Sten parts are a no-no).
But hell, books? Steel pipe? A CNC machine and programs? All legit, last time I looked.
That's the thing with stupid laws. There is a huge area just short of the line of illegal activity, where you can do all sorts of things legally but just...pull...short...of crossing the line.
A great example is the The CopBusters people who are buying Gro-Lights and growing tomatoes in their basement and then filming the ALphabet Soup Ninjas as they arrive to nothing, but cameras and lawyers. And really nice tomatoes. Oh, and lawsuits
The only avenue open to our Overlords is to ratchet up the restrictions (special licensing for buying a CNC machine?) or resort to prosecuting Pre-Crime and Thought Crimes.
Either way they will lose, as more people join our ranks.
HH,
Ideally, we would have some individuals in government who would have the integrity to actually do it, since THEY took a formal oath to UPHOLD the Constitution.
Sadly, I'm afraid you would be correct that the individual attempting to do that would receive the modern day American equivalent of a stoning.
The only good people left in government are the people with no power.
There may be some in the military, but if they move it could be a war with the hard core leftists over the "coup" that's taking place.
I still believe that it'd be much better if it was a LARGE portion of the population and in a strike type movement. Several reasons for that, use their tactics against "them", remind "them" we're still a nation of laws, PR not just "right wing nutjobs" (to some extent), remind everyone that whoever controls the MONEY really makes the rules, the slavery issue, "open" government is the way it should be, and Bush has lots of secrets so it they honestly wanted "change" they'd be opposed to "their" guy keeping something so trivial secret.
Honestly, I have no expectations of anything happening either way to stop him.
Hour of Wolves,
Fair point about keeping things just on that line, but to succeed we absolutely have to be willing to cross that line. MLK didn't win by staging stand-until-they-tell-you-to-leave-then-walk-out-ins, and Rosa Parks didn't create a controversy by sitting as close to the front as she could until they yelled at her, know what I mean?
John, back in the day of MLK the government didn't do things like take down sky scrapers and blame it on others to start wars. Different times are at hand.
Joe, the folks in power aren't competent to pull off something like bringing down the WTC buildings in that manner.
What they are able to do is take advantage of a convenient opportunity when someone who is competent lays it out for them on a silver platter.
LOL! How wrong you are.
I don't know what 9/11 conspiracy theories have to do with anything, here.
By now I have *no* idea if BHO
was born in Hawii or Kenya or Canada. I tend to believe he's
kin to the Dunhams.
According to the comments at
the TexasDarlin' blog, he's spent
several hundred K USD on fighting
these suits which would seem to
indicate he has something to hide.
But we may just be facing a "so
what nyah nyah we'll do what we
want" conclusion. There's some
comment out to that effect even
now.
That same td blog in its extremely
long comment threads has some
great stuff; Miri (Dec 4 I think)
on BHO's next aspiration. An
"Absolved" scenario, the posters
own invention, set in another state.
One good comment, from the
"Coat" or "Coat tails" thread.
Agreed. PUMAs rock.
I guess I’m actually a PUMA, too…
Most of y’all are D-PUMAs,
while I am a R-PUMA.
Quite a lot of ppl are becoming
aware of this issue.
IANAL but Leo Donofrio's argument
is that dual citizenship at birth
disqualifies one from being a
"natural born citizen" .
His blog has moved several times
I think it is at wordpress now.
Many MB of discussion on the
TexasDarlin' blog. IOW, producing
the vault certificate mightn't
settle the case.
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