Any gun in California needs to be registered;Interesting scenario, one I've never thought through. Anyone have any insights?
Note that there(technically)is no statute that says your pre 1/1/98 gun has to be registered but if you acquire a gun (even if you are not prohibited)after 1/1/98 and do not register it the "potential crime" under 12072 PC is essentially colluding with the seller to avoid registration - a misdemeanor - or a felony for multiple "violations".
HOWEVER - and this is the catch - once it comes into police possession - they will only return it to the registered owner - Sooooo, if your gun is old and was purchased by a "last known" not you, they will not give it back - period - say the last owner is dead or it went through a couple of hands before it got to you or you got it before registration was required - too bad.
Lose your guns in a "state emergency" - "just show us your registration" and you can have it back - flooded out, car stolen with "your" guns in the trunk - Burglary at your house? You live in Oakland and you want your house searched for your safety.........You will only be able to keep or get back guns that are registered to you.
Using the analogy wherein you are robbed of a couple hundred guns and it would take 10 - 20 years to get them back - Think again - every gun in that collection not "registered" to you would be forfeit to the state - you could only get back the ones "registered" to you - NO Affidavits.
Say the DOJ did a safe compliance check at your house in Kalifornia (which the DOJ can do if you sign that you have a safe when you do your purchase paperwork in CA) - Every non papered gun they find they could (arguably) take away and you would be forced to trade a felony collusion to avoid registration under 12072 PC in "exchange" for the privilege of forfeiting your guns to the "proper authorities".
This IS the knock 'em down one at a time and wipe 'em out by attrition, de facto registration law...
Tuesday, April 15, 2008
The Catch in California?
From Dave Licht:
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13 comments:
I have to admit to ignorance here. I was under the impression that only handguns and "assault weapons" were registered in CA. Yes, we do a DROS on every gun we purchase, but I don't recall that the serial #s of long guns was recorded on that. Am I mistaken?
I don't believe there's any such
"registration" on long guns. And handguns are not so much registered as DROS'd - you need a Handgun Certificate but it's YOU that's "registered" not the guns.
dirtcrashr
respectfully, all ca guns are registered and the state can run the serial numbers and determine the "last registered owner"
Owners are certainly "registered" but so are the guns
Dave Licht
All firearms in kalifornia must be registered.
The requirement became effective in ca on 4/1/94
The statute, 12072 of the ca penal code is titled "Restrictions on Transfer of Firearms". The requirements for transfer through a licensed dealer or Law Enforcement Agency apply to firearms making no distinction between Rifles, Pistols, Revolvers, Shotguns.
The registration issue comes up if the firearms come into police possession or purview. The police will only return firearms to the registered owner. If the gun is not registered to you, the police will not return it to you.
Possession of unregistered firearms is a misdemeanor for 1 and a felony for many under the theory of collusion OR conspiracy to avoid registration
If your guns are not registered to you and they are stolen you can not get them back unless they are registered to you. If your guns fall into police hands as a result of a burglary or emergency evacuation they will only return guns to registered owners. (handguns are returned at the rate of 1 a month requiring the full rectal plus fees - so even if they are registered to you it can take years to get a handgun collection returned from the "proper authorities" - and of course while you are getting your guns returned at one a month your collection is tied up and deteriorating and you can not make new handgun acquisitions)
Multiple unregistered firearms could be a felony conspiracy if they were all originally papered to different people and the case could be made by a DA that you have an established pattern of colluding with gun sellers to avoid registration......blah, blah, blah
In a ca safe compliance check (arguably) the police could run the serial numbers of your collection and confiscate guns not registered to you (DOJ could show up for a safe compliance check with a list of your known guns, match it to what they find in the safe, find a different number and have probable cause for further search)
You could be out shooting on private property and the polce could roll up, demand to see your guns, run the numbers right there and (arguably) confiscate the guns that don't match to the drivers licenses in the group - and if not - launch further investigation into violations of firearm lending and sales by the registered
owner(s) or the unregistered possessor(s).
If you buy any gun in ca they take the serial numbers - rifles same as pistols. The guns are registered to the buyer / transferee.
Dave Licht
I just read 12072 and it refers to "pistols, revolvers and other firearms capable of being concealed on a body" - unless I'm missing something, wouldn't this exclude long guns? As I said in my first post, the serial # of long guns purchased does not go on the DROS form that gets sent to DOJ (unlike handguns), so how would they have a record of the serial #? I suppose they could have an idea of how many long guns one has, but as to exact model and serial # I'm not so sure. I'll admit what I'm reading here is a real bummer to me if true, because I took a little solace in believing that at least my long guns weren't registered with the State...
"There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer."
Lifted from #26 on the public FAQ sheet at the CA DOJ website.
Kevin,
First, respectfully, the section you cite as only applying to handguns and short rifles capable of being concealed, etc. does not appear until subsection (6)(c)(5) and every citation before it outlining the application of the statute states "Firearms" with no distinction. The statute applies to Firearms, without differentiation.
Second, the DOJ Lies. I don't know how to put it any more politely. Yes, they will allow you to register your firearms - no you can not have them back if they are not registered to you.
The point of the original post is that if YOUR firearms are not registered to you, the "authorities" will not return them to you if they come in to their possession. This is defacto gun owner registration - register your guns or they will become the property of the state.
Dave Licht
OK, so what you mean is that although registration of long guns is not legally required, in the event that one's guns are seized, they will not be returned since there will be no registered owner?
Just had a sec to pop in--yeah, Kevin, that's what I understood him to say from the beginning.
Mr. Codrea, I'm curious: does this interpretation prompt you to want to voluntarily register your long guns?
This is a creepy scenario indeed...
Kevin the only people I expect to call me "Mr. Codrea" are my wife and kids, and the closest they've come to date is "Hey you."
As for me registering guns, please take a few moments to see my long-established position on that.
Firearms are NOT required to be registered in California, although they have set up the purchase process since the mid-90's to effectively make it that way. But if you own guns before that date, there is NO requirement to register them.
The San Diego Police Department will release a recovered firearm to the party reporting it lost/stolen as long as there is no DOJ hold on the weapon and it is not needed as evidence for some other crime.
You can verify this by calling and speaking to someone at the Gun Desk at (619) 531-2774.
Thanks Anon -
You make it sound so reasonable and easy,
I called the San Diego PD Gun Desk and got a recorded message.
The recording said that for release of firearms "Approval was needed from the DOJ"
The recording further stated that if the Firearm is available it will be mailed - if not available you will be contacted.
I'll bet that if you are not the "registered owner" approval will be withheld and the firearm will "not be available".
I also note that your email specified guns pre 1994 which I interpret to mean you concede that if the gun is manufactured after 1994 return to a "non registered owner" won't happen and is a non issue.
Thank you
Dave Licht
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