In this document signed by the Secretary of the Army, is hereby assigned as DOD Executive Agent for civil disturbance control operations. [More]Big Caveat--this was sent to me by a regular reader. I have no way of determining if the information is accurate or not, as I have not seen the original FOIA request nor the official response, assuming everything is as stated. I offer it here not to perpetuate disinformation or an unfounded conspiracy theory, but to see if anyone can help track down what's really going on here.
Some relevant links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Garden_Plot
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/garden_plot.htm
Google search
[Via Steven S]
16 comments:
I'll take a look and ask around.
In the meantime, here's an idea...
If nobody wants a "civil disturbance," why in heck don't they quit disturbing us?
David,
You are just now hearing about Garden Plot?
What about Rex84?
For those wish to supllement their scouring the web, some of the best information on this can still be found at the Text Files here:
http://www.textfiles.com/
The Text Files is an archive of the pre-Internet days, when BBS' ruled and to have a 2400BPS modem was king!
Heck, I remember one night in 1992 when my brother kicked my butt out of bed at 5AM for turning on my computer the night before and showing him some of the files I had collected over the past two years on this stuff. He had been up all night reading- ahh, good times...
In order to protect operations undertaken to accomplish the mission, it is necessary to control sources of information that can be exploited by those opposition forces or groups.
goes without saying.
This plan could be implemented under any of the following situation:
you just defined where and when your whole operation applies. might as well scrap it -- by writing the document, you've organized the information necessary to engage in subversion of another completely unrecognizable form. there's gonna be a tax revolt, and you're never going to see it. military intelligence truly is an oxymoron.
(2) Planned acts of violence or civil disobedience which, through arising from the same causes as (1) above, are seized upon by a dedicated group of dissidents who plan and incite purposeful acts designed to disrupt social order.
you mean like the obama administration?
Specific operations orders and standard operating procedures MUST be developed with the awareness that the opposition may be able to identify and exploit vulnerable activities.
vulnerable activity, for example, the creation of operations orders and an SOP, as you've just demonstrated. thanks anyways, government servants. i guess the people will once again be left to deal with their own, real problems.
First heard of Garden Plot in the '90s, along with Cable Splicer. The militia movement response was Operation Vampire Killer.
Remember, the enemies of freedom can be very patient. Their great-grandparents started this. Their children may be the final beneficiaries of it. If we surrender.
It is disappointing to see you use the knee-jerk, pigeon-holing label of "conspiracy theory." This has become a catch-all label used to discredit certain subjects and defame people who don't toe the line. It's political correctness on steroids. I for one am sick of that crap.
As for the civil disturbance plans, they are very, very old news.
Hold the damn phone, Armatus. I didn't pigeon-hole anything.
I'm asking.
Pending some sort of proving document that can be traced to an official source, that's exactly what our enemies will use to discredit us. I just saw it happen with this State Department plot to give the Chicoms eminent domain that originated as an unsourced Live Leak post. A bunch of conservatives jumped on it like it was Gospel and now it's looking like it was disinformation intended to make them jump on it--and lose credibility.
I have a copy of Operation Vampire Killer I got probably 15 years ago. My memories of it aren't specific enough to recall if it was Garden Plot-centered--I recall it being much more general NWO-oriented.
But back to "conspiracy theory"--those of you who obviously know more about this than I do, since the government is said to be the source, can you direct us to any way to validate that?
I didn't say you were pigeon-holing anything. I said it was disappointing that you used a term which is now used primarily for that purpose. It may seem semantic, but it's akin to using the anti-gun crowd's own twisted terminology. That, I'm sure, you understand.
"Pending some sort of proving document that can be traced to an official source, that's exactly what our enemies will use to discredit us."
I agree with you 100% and find it refreshing that you demand proof.
"I just saw it happen with this State Department plot to give the Chicoms eminent domain that originated as an unsourced Live Leak post. A bunch of conservatives jumped on it like it was Gospel and now it's looking like it was disinformation intended to make them jump on it--and lose credibility."
You are absolutely correct. The credulity of many is deplorable.
"I have a copy of Operation Vampire Killer I got probably 15 years ago. My memories of it aren't specific enough to recall if it was Garden Plot-centered--I recall it being much more general NWO-oriented."
It was.
"But back to "conspiracy theory"--those of you who obviously know more about this than I do, since the government is said to be the source, can you direct us to any way to validate that?"
Stop calling it "conspiracy theory." That's playing by the enemy's rules.
There has been so much controversy surrounding "Operation Garden Plot" that the only way to truly discern its authenticity is probably to file your own FOIA request. I wouldn't believe anything about it one way or the other until I had an original copy in my hands. In my opinion, it's almost irrelevant at this point. Obviously, civil disturbance plans are in place. It's what happens on the ground that counts. Witness the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. When the buffalo chip really hits the fan, martial law is declared, the flotsam and jetsam are corraled under armed guard, the military patrols the streets, there are mass confiscations of firearms, and foreign military personnel supply "aid." It isn't hard to imagine the reaction to any organized violence or armed uprising in that situation. Everything in the so-called "Garden Plot" doctrine seems consistent with counterinsurgency and civil affairs operations in general, and, when applied to the homeland, those are plenty grim.
Once again, I applaud your insistence on verification, just don't like the use of the term "conspiracy theory," period.
I just don't agree. You may not like the term, but there are conspiracy theories. I can't do anything about that.
And I can't write each day to reach thousands and worry about one person taking exception to a term. I'll never get anything done that way, because someone will always be PO'd.
I believe anyone who complains about a problem has an obligation to propose workable solutions.
So come up with a non-offensive term we can all agree on that does the job.
I think he is having the same problem with that terminology that we do with "assault weapon".
I can understand it, but I don't have a better suggestion than just using the term correctly, which you did. Unlike what happens with "assault weapon" when almost everbody uses it. Hence the quotes.
Just my .02, but I don't think he meant to demean anything you said or your work. Just venting about the sneering usurpers who use it as a term of ridicule.
But back to "conspiracy theory"--those of you who obviously know more about this than I do, since the government is said to be the source, can you direct us to any way to validate that?
Whenever someone tells me "...but that's a conspiracy theory!" I say, "there is no conspiracy, it's just a coincidence". Their immediate reaction is "that's ridiculous", then the doublethink kicks in, they gulp and try to distract themselves by changing the subject. If you personally won't accept "it's just a coincidence", then you've already convinced yourself. It is probably more fruitful to figure out exactly how and why you have convinced yourself, than to track down the source of some written plan, which might finally chase down to nothing more than loose talk by a think tank.
The details of a conspiracy plan don't matter much; they will change depending on whoever is commanding it that week, and change again when the public reacts. Presumably the pentagon has a whole file cabinet of plans for how to invade territory X from territory Y. So what. These are just soldiers doing their homework. My suggestion to you: prove how every conspiracy theory you can think of is an irrelevant loser. If one is not a loser, work to make it a loser; that addresses the real problem.
The term "conspiracy theory" works for me. Anyone who won't believe there is some organized crime in government is a lost sheep living in fantasyland. I am, however, much more interested in conspiracy facts than conspiracy theories.
Straightarrow is correct. Thank you, sir, for offering a simpler explanation than I did.
I'm not offended by the term, and I don't have a better phrase to use, but even something as simple as putting it in quotation marks changes the connotation.
I would disagree, however, that the phrase was used appropriately. I believe you made a simple error and momentarily succumbed to the convenience of employing certain language which, unfortunately, has digressed the level of conversation regarding certain controversial topics and serves to instantly quash debate and generate animosity. The existence or non-existence of certain documents disclosing a particularly odious military doctrine or set of procedures has nothing whatsoever to do with conspiracies (in the classic sense) or theories concerning the same. It is a shame how these words have been corrupted, and I urge you not to perpetuate this practice.
Apologies if this seems trivial, but discussion of issues of freedom, firearms and the general state of affairs in America frequently bump up against areas which have been assigned the blanket label of "conspiracy theory." Such weighted language is easily misinterpreted.
I completely understand your point regarding people and their personal grievances. In my opinion this is about accuracy and clarity.
I absolutely did not intend to demean you in any way. To repeat, I extend my sincere gratitude and appreciation for your commitment to finding solid evidence regarding important issues such as this. This is something that, sadly, is sorely lacking today.
Thank you for your replies.
"Sensationalism." "Paranoia." "Hoax." "Bullshit."
These are far more accurate but don't have quite the same ring as "conspiracy theory."
David - by the time we "figure out what's really going on here" - it'll be codified. And even then - many people won't want to grok it.
Another search phrase:
"CONPLAN 2502"
(from the Global Security page)
A couple others that might be (co-incidentally) interesting:
"clergy response team"
"faith based responders"
What part of "Northcom" and "Continuity of Government" don't you understand?
:)
arbeit macht frei
I understand.
So that tyranny doesn't succeed is what this site is all about.
"Here's an idea... If nobody wants a 'civil disturbance,' why in heck don't they quit disturbing us?"
Hope you don't mind, MamaLiberty, but I liked this so much I put it at the upper right corner of my blog this morning. Well said.
I would point out that it is entirely legitimate to point out to people who ridicule "conspiracy theories" as the ravings of paranoiacs that the history of the world has been written as the result of conspiracies. Think about it. If you do, you cannot in good faith deny it.
Oddly the word verification for this comment is "culters" :(
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